Path of the Assassin

Alright kiddies. Bet you were all super excited to see what would happen with Path of the Assassin weren't ya?

Just so you can follow along there are a few syntax changes. First under requirements it will no longer list an ability and a rank. It will now be assumed that the required ability has maximum rank.

The other notable thing is that Ranged attacks are now possible in melee assuming the target is not engaged, which occurs with a melee attack or other ability.

Without Further Adeu-

Path of the Assassin.

Keywords- Poison - Poison is applied to weapons at the beginning on an encounter before your first move. A different poison may be applied to each weapon you possess. Poison gives a foe a hampering or damaging effect over time. This effect applies immediately at the end of the assassin's turn and lasts a number of rounds detailed in each skill. Any hit with a poisoned weapon that is not blocked, dodged, or otherwise denied a wounding roll applies its effect. Multiple applications of the same poison often stack (see each skill for details) and reset the poisons duration. You may not apply the same poison to multiple weapons.

Deadly Poison - 2 Ranks
Requirements: 1 Other Poison.
Type: Poison
Effect: Deals 1/2 additional poison damage a round. This lasts 3 rounds. Any additional applications reset the duration. This stacks up to 3 times.

Slow Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's Agility by 2/4/6 per hit and reduces their dodge and block chance by 1/2/3% for 3 rounds. This effect can stack up to 5 times.

Crippling Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's toughness by 1/3/5 for 3 rounds. This effect can stack up to 5 times.

Weakness Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's Strength and Weapon skill by 1/3/5 for 3 rounds. This effect can stack up to 5 times.

Poison Proficiency - 1 Rank
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: All poisons have a 1 round reduced duration against you. In addition poisons with a last an additional 1 rounds or applications and poisons that have limited applications (such as one-time use items) have 2 additional applications.

Poison Expert- 1 Rank
Requirements: 2 Poisons
Type: Passive
Effect: All your poisons can stack 1 additional time.


(*Now for the new stuff you were all waiting for)

Man-Slayer Venom- 1 Rank
Requirements: 3 Poisons, Assassin's Mark
Type: Epic Free Ability
Effect: Replace the poison on one of your weapons with Man-Slayer Venom for the next 3 rounds. The enemy has a 5% chance to instantly be slain at the end of your turn for the next 3 rounds. This death can only be prevented by ward saves. This effect stacks up to 5 times.

Surge of Venom - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Poison Expert
Type: Passive
Effect: Your critical hits apply an additional 1/2 applications of any poison they possess to the target.

Assassin's Mark - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Murderer
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Ability
Effect: Your next attack against the target automatically hits and has a 0/10/25% increased critical strike chance.

Backstab - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Gain a 2/5% increased critical strike chance in melee against foes not engaging you.

Hobble - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If this attack wounds the target they may not move or engage targets for the next 1/2 rounds.

Murderer - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Killer Instrinct
Type: Passive
Effect: Deal an additional 1/2 damage against wounded foes (Below half health).

Killer Instinct - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: You gain a 1/3/5% critical strike chance with all weapons.

Death Strike - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Killer Instinct
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: Use the targets current W instead of T for the wound roll. If this attack hits and wounds you deal 2/3 times weapon damage. If this amount is greater than the targets current W they die. If the amount is less this attack deals 1/2 weapon damage.

Strip Defense - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Rending Blows
Type: Powerful Short Ranged/Melee Attack
Effect: This attack lowers the targets dodge, block, and ward save by 3/6/10% and lowers the targets DR and MR by 5/15/25 (to a minimum of 0).

Piercing Blows - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Anytime you wound a foe in melee remove 2/4 DR before dealing damage.

Anyone sufficiently scared yet? I know I am...

It only has 36 points at the moment so I feel it still needs another ability or two. Thoughts?

Strip Defenses should have either a duration or "until end of encounter", to be clear.

Dark Catalyst - 1 Rank
Requirements: Poison Expert
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: You replace the poison on one of your blades with 1 charge of a catalyzing venom. When this poison is applied to a target, you may convert any existing stacks of poison on the target to an equal number of stacks of a different poison you know, also resetting the duration.

Black Lotus Strike - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Poison Expert
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If this attack hits, all stacks of poison on the target are removed, dealing 1/2/3 damage per stack.

Reserve Vial - 2 Ranks
Requirements: One poison
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: You swiftly pour a hidden vial of poison over one of your weapons, changing its poison to a new type of your choice (that you know). At rank 2, you may replace the poison on all of your wielded weapons instead of just one.

I like all of these. Reserve Vial should be 1 rank though and only replace 1 poison.

The other 2 abilities are great as is.

In terms of the usefulness of various poisons I feel that deadly is going to be the one that most folks will want. Slow in particular I feel is pretty weak with that in mind I am considering either buffing it or changing it to a 2 pt poison. Thoughts? One idea is to give it a 1 other poison requirement and bump deadly poison up to 2 other poisons.

In addition I am thinking of adding an anti-caster poison. Along the same 2 pt specialty vein.

Although not actually Daemon's blood this substance leeches the magic from foes and lowers their resistance to magic .
Daemon's Blood - 2 Ranks
Requirements: 1 other poison
Type: Poison -
Effect: The targets Wp is reduced by 2/5 for 3 rounds. In addition, if the target is a spellcaster the suffer an increased chance to miscast by 2/5% and has a 2/5% chance to automatically suffer a miscast at the beginning of each of their turns even if they don't cast a spell. This stacks up to 5 times.


Slow poison could be?
Slow Poison - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's Agility by 2/5 per hit and reduces their dodge and block chance by 2/5% for 3 rounds. This effect can stack up to 5 times.

Would Demon's Blood be able to cause a non-caster to miscast with that auto-miscast thing?

Was not the intent. I'll clear up the wording. The intent was only spellcasters could miscast. Against non-spellcasters the poison would simply lower Wp making them more susceptible to magic spells from allied casters.

Also meant to throw up this ability but forgot.

Determination - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Whenever you fail to wound with an attack your next attack against that foe gains +5/10 to wound.

Backstab is the name of a Scout ability, this one needs a rename. Also, this Backstab is exactly the same effect as the Scout ability Flanking, but with lower numbers (2/5% rather than 5/10%). Do we want to give both paths the same ability? And I think both of those numbers are off, I would go with 3/6 or 4/8.

Lowering the max stacks on Deadly Poison was a good choice. To further encourage people to use poisons other than Deadly, I would consider raising the max stacks on other poisons, or removing them entirely. If you get stabbed 10 times by someone with slow poison, you probably deserve what's going to happen.

Poison Prof should only extend durations by 1 round. Combat isn't that long, an extra 2 rounds on a 3 round poison is an eternity.

Death Strike is imba, poorly worded, and refers to a weapon damage mechanic I think we would prefer to avoid. Let me try to fix that for you:

Death Strike - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Killer Instinct
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: Use the target's current W instead of T for the wound roll. If this attack hits and wounds, it does double/triple damage. If this amount is greater than the target's current Wounds, they die. If this amount is less, they take only half/one third damage.

I'm not sure if that's good enough, but it's better.

Determination: Feels like it could just as easily have been a Fury ability. I get the concept, but I'm still not sure it fits here.

Otherwise, I like this tree. With the new poisons you and I added it should be up over 40 points. Call it done and add it to the completed thread.

Blargh 3/6 4/8 your little number fetish is ridiculous. I'll keep it at 2/5 for the moment but it was going to be removed from scout when the time came. I think I am going to keep it in scout for the time being since that tree deals more with disengagement and avoidance than assassin. The way this tree is build you could have a very straightforward assassin.

I took another look at the other poisons. Instead of removing the application limit I raised the stat reduction to 1/3/5 (From 1/2/3). I think -25/30 (w/ Specialist) is plenty but i agree -15/18 was too low.

Poison Prof - Fixed and worded better. The main purpose was for Assassins who wanted to use consumable poisons better than us normal folks.

Death Strike - Fixed. Didn't do the 1/2 / 1/3 third thing though. Kept it at 1/2 weapon damage. Also specified only the weapon damage is multiplied.

Determination - Sure. Should I put it back in Fury? It did give me an idea just now for another fury ability.

Determined Strike - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Determination?
Type: Powerful Attack
Effect: This attack hits for an additional 2/4/6 damage. If this attack fails to hit you gain +5/10/15 to hit that foe. If this attack instead fails to wound you gain +5/10/15 to wound that target. These bonuses last for the duration of the encounter.

Psh, if you wanted everything in nice round units of 5, we might as well do d20. You gave me the tools to pick weird numbers, and by god I'm going to use them.

The other fixes are good. I don't know what to say about Determination, it doesn't tickle my fancy in either tree.

Black Lotus - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None.
Type: Poison
Effect: Reduces two of the opponent's stats (WS, S, BS, or Ag; chosen by the caster) by 1/3/5. Lasts three rounds and stacks up to 5 times.
Note: Which stats are debuffed are chosen when Crippling Poison is applied to the weapon at the beginning of the round

Manbane - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Reduces target's T by 1/2/3 for three rounds. Stacks up to 5 times. While Manbane is active, any successful To-Wound rolls against the target have a 4/8/12% chance of causing the target to take 2 Bleed Damage at the end of every round for 3 rounds.
Note: Bleeding damage does not stack. Any successful applications of the bleeding effect only resets the duration.

Dark Venom - 3 Ranks
Requirements: 1 Other Poison
Type: Poison
Effect: Deals 1/1/2 Poison Damage at the end of every round for 3 rounds. Stacks up to 3 times.

Daemon's Blood - 3 Ranks
Requirements: 1 Other Poison
Type: Poison
Effect: Reduces target's Wp by 1/3/5 for three rounds. Stacks up to 5 times. Any amount of stacks causes the target to have a 2/4/6% chance to automatically miscast any spell that they cast.
Note: Even if a caster does not miscast due to Daemon's Blood they may still miscast normally as per the spell-casting rules.

Firstly, you'll notice that I altered all of the poison names save for Daemon's Blood because I don't think it needs to be changed. I didn't mention Manslayer Venom up there because I have no proposed change for it mechanically though I think it should be changed to Last Breath so that Manbane is freed up to replace Weakness Poison.

Otherwise, I made the following suggested changes:
-Nerfed Dark Venom (Formerly Deadly Poison) from it's current incarnation. It now requires an investment of 4 points for 18 damage over 3 Rounds (at maximum stacks) rather than 3 points for 24 damage (which in reality is more than that because you have the stack dealing damage as you're stacking it from round-to-round).
-Combined Slow and Crippling Poison into a single poison that lets you choose two of the four stats to debuff when you chose Black Lotus as your poison for the battle. This frees up some points in the tree and lets us make the poisons feel a bit more unique rather than a set of situational stat-debuffers.
-Nerfed the T debuff on Manbane (Formerly Weakness Poison) and added a debuff that can cause bleed damage based off of the number of successful 'To Wound' rolls made against the target to increase synergy between the Assassin and other physical attacks (and allies to a certain degree).
-Standardized Daemon's Blood's point investment and ranks with Dark Venom. Altered miscast debuff a little bit.

Thoughts?

Manbane is wayyy too complicated I feel. I guess everything else is alright, though I feel that most poisons weren't terribly weak to begin with.

I don't think it's terribly more complicated than say Ground and Pound from Path of the Juggernaut.

While Manbane is applied to a target there is a 12% chance every time they're wounded (I.E. a successful 'To-Wound' roll) they get a debuff that causes 2 damage at the end of every round for three rounds.

Yes, but ground and pound is done once a round. Whereas maneater requires a roll every time that person is wounded, and if the assassin has used maneater poison on multiple enemies? It's not as bad as my brain was originally trying to make it, but it's still potentially a lot of rolls.

I like the idea behind Man-Bane but I feel it is currently actually weaker than the current T reducing poison and actually reduces team synergy. Since the bleeding damage can only be applied once no matter how many people strike the foe, the bleeding stays the same. I think the general T reduction of -5 per application is incredibly powerful as it bumps melee damage by 1 for all party members per application and reduces simplicity. For the time being I'll keep T poison the way it is. The fluff is great but mechanically it complicates and weakens the skill.

As for Blank Lotus I think that's a brilliant idea. I had been trying to come up with a way for Ag poison but there really isn't a need for it. If the assassin chooses which stats they wish to detract from at the start of battle, it A) Adds a level of strategy and depth , and B) Makes that skill significantly more appealing. A+ on this suggestion.

As for Daemon's Blood I see you raised it to 3 ranks (which I'm all for since the removal of slow poison) and lowered the miscast chance. Did you feel it was too high? You also removed the chance of suffering a miscast at the beginning of their turn. I thought this was the most desirable and fun aspect of the poison. What the thought process behind those changes?


I hear there has been some discussion, legit I'll admit, on the power of deadly poison, as you put it more Druchiish, Dark Venom. How would we feel instead about standardizing it a bit like the other poisons. Something like this.

Deadly Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: 1 Other Poison
Type: Poison
Effect: Deals 1 Poison Damage at the end of every round for 1/2/3 rounds. Stacks up to 5 times.

This would actually weaken the skill an incredible amount considering it would take many applications to get up to its former strength. Investing more points is still a considerable advantage as with only 1 rank if you miss an attack the counter resets. 5 damage/rd is about on par with -25T or -25WS&S. Overall I think these are some really good changes though, Thoughts?

Giving credit where credit is due, it was actually Ferret's idea for the change to Black Lotus. I just decided to add it to my suggestion post to get all of the poison ideas in one place.

Don't give ferret any credit. He deserves nothing. Anyways how do we feel about the poisons as a whole now?

As far as the Daemon's Blood change goes-- re-reading the original version; I thought it was just a flat 5% but I see it might have been intended to stack up to a 25% miscast so I did bring it down didn't I? Whoops.

The reason I changed it from the beginning of the turn into whenever they cast a spell is because then the enemy caster now has two chances to miscast every time they cast a spell; one for the poison and one from normally casting (which is at a higher chance because of their Wp penalty). It forces them to choose whether or not they want to take the risk of casting or not. With the original version they get slammed with the possible miscast either way so it doesn't effect their decision whether or not to cast a spell as much.

Other than that, I like where poisons are at. Each of the poisons has their role and I feel like with the Dark Venom/Deadly Poison (whichever we choose as the name) changes the choice between whether or not to go for pure damage or potent debuffs is a legitimate debate now.

The 1 damage version of Deadly seems fine to me. However, if we wanted to bring it a little closer to its original power without bumping later ranks to 2 damage stacks, we could change it so that later ranks provide 2 applications per hit. This way you could ramp up to your max damage faster, but it wouldn't double what that max damage was the way raising the damage to 2 would.

I think 6 damage/rd is plenty for dark venom/deadly poison.

Changes have been posted. Any final comments? If none I'll consider it good to go.