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Revamp - Engineering

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Post  FlyingPinkPony Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:43 am

So I've finally made up my mind sorta about how engineering should work. Similar to how Commander is split into 3 distinct subgroups (Summon Minion, Melee Attacks, Oaths) I want engineer to follow a similar style. The 3 basic ideas I want in this tree are. One distinct difference from this and the old engineering tree is the lack of race specific ideas. All the ideas that are presented here will be more generalized to allow more creativity and flexibility in character design.

A) Weapon Modifications - These represent the engineers ability to enhance and improve their own ranged and melee weaponry. The main focus of this group will be ranged weapons but a shout out to melee will also ideally.

B) War Machine - The War Machine is the flashiest and most iconic category of the engineering tree. It will feature the ability to create a customizable war machine.

C) Devices - These devices offer a support and defensive attribute to the engineering class. They range from barricades to block off a zone to force fields.

I don't have time to finish writing up all my specific ideas tonight but I shall be posting them soon. Thoughts at this point are certainly welcome or generic ideas are also appreciated or you could wait until I post a few specifics to get a better idea of what I am babbling about.
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:37 am

Here are my initial thoughts on war machines.


War Machine - 3 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: Create an immobile war machine in your zone. This weapon can be fired as an action using your BS to hit and WP to wound. It has long range and deals 2-12/4-16/6-20 damage. Use your WP vs T for bonus damage. On a 1-10 on the hit the attack misfires (See misfire rules below).

Elemental Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Your war machine's range is reduced to medium. It deals 8-12 /10 -16 magic damage instead of the war machines normal damage. This War Machine uses WP vs WP for its bonus damage.

Elemental Variance- 1 Rank
Requirements: Elemental Weapon
Type: Passive
Effect:When you add an elemental type to a war machine you may choose one of the following elements with varying effects. Each type replaces the Magic damage of your Elemental Weapon with the chosen type. Fire - Each successful attack deals an additional 2 fire damage a round for 3 rounds. Ice - When hit with by your war machine the opponent suffers -5 to all rolls next turn. Lightning - Your Elemental War Machine deals additional damage to your opponent equal to their armor.

Rapid Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect:Your War Machine your war machine makes three attacks each round dealing 4-10 / 6-12 physical damage. This weapon suffers -10 penalty to hit and wound for each range beyond melee the target is in. At short range or less this weapon is treated as armor piercing.

Grand Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Increase your War Machine's range to very long. It deals an additional 3/6 maximum damage. If this weapon misfires roll twice and choose the higher result.

Blast Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: This weapon deals 4-12/16 damage instead of its normal damage. It deals half weapon damage to all other enemies in the targeted zone. You only deal bonus damage with this attack to the primary target. You subtract 1 on any misfire rolls for this weapon.


Misfire Chart - When misfiring roll on the chart below.

Will make chart later.
1-10 roll.

As for The mechanics on War Machine Variant I had a couple of options. My current idea is that a player will only be allowed one Variant at a time and there would be ways with other skills to swap the variant. The other thing I am considering due to the power of the war machine is to have them construct the basic war machine in one round and then at a later round or two to upgrade it as a free action.
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Post  deadlychair Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:57 am

How are war machines going to work with things attacking the operator? Are they going to be like ranged weapons where you can't use them when you're engaged, or will the be set up things that people can decide to attack?
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm

My initial feeling was to treat them like ranged weapons and have them not be target-able. In theory we could but I don't feel it really adds that much more depth to the system especially at the cost of having to work out stats and bookkeeping for that additional unit.
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:51 am

Here are a couple of device skills I was thinking on.

Portable Artillery- 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack
Effect: You fire 3/5/7 shots at the targeted zone anywhere on the battlefield. These shots have a 40% chance of falling in the targeted zone, 30% 1 zone away, 30% chance of landing 2 zones away. If the shot lands in an occupied zone roll to hit against a random unit in that zone. Allies may be targeted but enemies are twice as likely to be selected. Each of these shots uses the Engineers BS vs AG to hit and WP vs T to wound and deals 5-10 damage using WP vs T to determine bonus damage.

Caltrops - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You toss shrapnel or caltrops in your current or adjacent zone that last for the duration of the encounter. Foes who enter or leave the zone suffer an automatic hit dealing 2-4/6/8 damage with no armor allowed (Roll to wound as normal and use WP vs T for bonus damage). Any foe standing in your current zone suffers an automatic 1/2/3 damage (ignoring armor) every round they continue to fight in your zone.
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Post  deadlychair Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:08 am

Alright, I prefer it this way, as having standing machines with stats seemed like a lot of work. I have some questions about Caltrops. You say either your own zone or an adjacent one, that's clear enough, but the auto damage part at the end says your zone. Do you mean the zone the character is in, or the zone the caltrops were dropped in, or did you mean to have the caltrops get dropped in all 3 zones (yours and the two adjacent)?
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:09 pm

Sorry it was quite late when I posted that. The idea was them to only take damage in the zone the caltrops were dropped in. Do other folks have ideas for devices or things for the engineering tree? This are obviously in need of some number tweaking but abstract ideas are good too, two ideas I was tossing about were

A) A magic battery of sorts that has a limited supply of power but that allied casters could draw bonuses to their casting from.
-or-
B) A magic amplifier that would increase both the power of spells coming into and out of zone.
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Post  DemonicFerret Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:16 pm

War Machine base damage is way too high. Compare to Fireball/Red Fire/Fury of Khaine - this is higher, and doesn't risk you being eaten by demons. Grand Weapon would have a max damage of 26. That's twenty-six. That's a five point investment that could one-shot any character besides invincible-lizard-man, not even counting the bonus damage. Good rolls on a Rapid Fire could deal 36+triple bonus damage in one action. Even without a variant, a war machine that got good damage rolls could one shot most of us. Blast Weapon damage is too high. Rapid Fire damage is too high. Elemental Weapon damage is probably okay, except that it's almost a downgrade from vanilla war machines.

Why not just have the lightning variant ignore armor? It would be mechanically identical and less math, no?

Regarding targeting war machines: Just say that if there is an enemy in the zone with your machine and no ally there, the machine is destroyed.

Portable Artillery is a lot of math and paperwork. Does it scatter, how far does it scatter, which direction does it scatter, who does it hit (counting each ally once, and each enemy twice...) Also, damage is too high for something you can fire 7 times, even if it's Powerful. Try 4-8.

Caltrops scares me. I'm not sure how it will end up playing, but it seems like a permanent fuck-you to melee enemies. It could read "Every time an enemy even attempts to attack you in melee, they take 3 damage" and be nearly identical. I'm not sure if that's balanced or not. Contemplate it.

Now that we're done with that... new ability ideas!

Remote Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You may fire your war machine, as long as you are within 1/2 zones of it. You may not use this ability while engaged.

Warpstone Superconductor - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You and all allies within 1 zone of you gain +5/10/15 to casting and spellpower rolls for the next 3 rounds. All affected characters also suffer a 5% increased chance of miscasting.

Incandescent Illuminator - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You toss a flashbang into a zone within medium range, blinding enemies. All enemies in the targeted zone suffer -5/10/15 to hit on their next turn. This penalty is reduced by 5 each turn until their vision fully clears.

Throw up some abilities for Weapon Mods so I can see what you're going for.

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Post  FlyingPinkPony Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:29 am

The numbers might be a bit high on war machines but I think you're forgetting two key weaknesses as opposed to the spells you compare them too.

A) There will be a misfire chart - Similar in nature to the miscast table, although smaller and inherently less interesting.

B) Building the Machine is a full round ability. As compared to any of the nuke spells. An entire round of setup time, especially for a ranged weapon is a huge weakness. It allows the opponent one more round to close ranks, as well as you could pull off two spells in the same period of time.

As for lightning, I was working on specifying damage types. I was thinking along the lines of

Physical, Magical, Fire, Ice, Lightning (Potentially Fire,Ice,Lighting in one called elemental), Poison. Anything else that needs a type. Armor would only apply to physical damage. The idea behind the lightning cannon was the more armor you had the more damage you took, for example My gun deals 14 damage before taking armor into account. My opponent AKA Captain armored D-Bag McCold One has 4 armor. He takes 18 damage instead, while an unarmored opponent would take 14. So wearing armor is a bad thing when facing the lightning cannon.

Magic war machine is not in fact the downgrade you say it is. It is the same average damage just less variable. Also the idea was that it would be better against purely physical characters who rely heavily on T since its opposed stat is WP and being magic damage would ignore armor.

Portable Artillery - I agree needs some work. I am instead thinking of just having it rain shells randomly on the map and auto hit (Less damage for allies obviously and it would hit any enemies in the zone first). But I like the idea because its fun and random, a characteristic not shared by the other trees.


As for weapon mods here are some I was playing with.

Rapid Fire Modification - 3 Ranks
Type: Ranged Weapon Modification
Effect: Whenever you use a basic attack with this weapon you make 2 attacks instead of 1. Each of these attacks suffers -20/15/10 to hit and wound. (Similar to DW but for ranged)

- Was considering making it 3 attacks and raising penalty but it seems like more bookkeeping for less results.

Compact - 2 Ranks
Type: Weapon Modification
Effect: A weapon with this modification becomes easier to shoot on the run. Normal weapons become shoot and move, and shoot and move become skirmish. The weapon loses 2/1 to minimum and maximum damage.

// Both are not great but something like that is the idea.
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Post  DemonicFerret Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:35 am

You have a point about the disadvantages, certainly. Is the idea that you're usually only going to get one shot off before melee enemies get into melee with you? If so, that may be a legitimate principle, but I see some problems:

1: Scout abilities (Longstride comes to mind) are super good with this. Moving a zone away and building a machine on turn 1 would be common among those who like being as gay as possible (cough cough), which pretty much guarantees you another shot. Disengage in melee does the same again. More, depending on problem 2:

2: If your allies are good at tanking in the zone in front of you, the enemy may never make it to your zone. We discussed something long ago about engaging an enemy having tank like effects, keeping the enemy from attacking other people or chasing other people or something along those lines. Have we abandoned that idea in favor of the same mechanic in Guardian skills? Either way, having a guardian standing in the zone in front of you would buy you plenty of time to make more shots.

3: That all assumes that every enemy (god help enemies who WANT to stay at range) is making a beeline for you and your war machine, which would be sort of... weird. But if they don't, they're going to get obliterated by cannonballs.

TL;DR: If machines are balanced around getting one shot off, abilities that let you get more shots are imba. If machines are balanced around the shit I outline above, everyone who doesn't do the especially synergistic things is going to be underpowered.

Regarding elemental weapon: I said almost a downgrade, in the sense that it's the same damage with shorter range. If typed damage ignores armor, then that's a little more of an advantage. But more reliable, shorter range damage is not nearly as good as the other variants, which would destroy lives and decimate families.

I can tell you like the "fun and random" aspect of this tree, and with good reason. But huge damage ranges like the one a Grand war machine would have are going to swing between useless ("why did we bring the engineer? his machine just keeps exploding") and godlike ("oh shit, he one-shotted the boss"). I feel a certain insane glee at this prospect, but I question the long-term fun of being so heavily reliant on dice rolls.

Maybe tomorrow I'll actually have some constructive ideas rather than just shitting on your parade again. <333

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Post  deadlychair Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:41 pm

Perhaps we should tighten and slightly lower the damage ranges on the existing war machine variants, thus making them more consistent and less godlike at times, while making a new warmachine that takes our love of silly large damage ranges and expanding it even further. Something that's just as likely to blow up or do nothing as one shotting a boss.

P.S. I'll add more actual ideas tomorrow, as well as continue the Cold One mission (assuming Forte doesn't post). They just released the open beta for Star Trek Online, so I've been checking that out while helping my brother pack for his trip to Alaska.
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Post  DemonicFerret Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:17 pm

How is that? I've been considering pre-ordering.

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Post  deadlychair Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:35 am

Not sure yet. The world seems pretty cramped and there doesn't seem like that much to do, but I'm still pretty low level (4 out of the 16 cap for the beta). The ship combat is so far the best part, and it's a blast. It's probably one of the better space fighting systems I've played. It's kind of like a cross between escape velocity and x-wing with some naval combat thrown in.

Edit: I f you want to try it yourself you just need a free fileplanet account.
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Post  deadlychair Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:46 am

After taking a look at the ideas here again I think that we should either tighten the damage ranges and lower the overall damage potential of the war machines so that they're more in line with being slightly more powerful black-powder weapons that aren't one-shots, or we drastically raise the misfire rate. Personally I think we should change the ranges to something more like 4-10/6-12/8-14 for the standard warmachine and add in another warmachine variant:

Gambler's Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: When constructing this war machine variant roll a d6, the resulting number is the maximum range of the war machine. This war machine deals 1-20/28 damage. On a 1-30 on the hit the attack misfires (See misfire rules below). Roll twice on the misfire chart and choose the lower (worse) result.

This way if people want to play with a crazy luck beast they can, but other engineers get to have a bit more stability in their results. Aside from number tweaking though I think, personally, that we have enough war machine variants to not need any more ideas for that section. I need to go work out now, but when I'm done I'll sit down and try and bang out some weapon modification and device ideas. I'll also try and get Armand to hop on and weigh in, since this is his class we're discussing here.
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Post  deadlychair Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:06 am

Some thoughts:

Remote Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You may fire your war machine, as long as you are within 1/2 zones of it. You may not use this ability while engaged.

-I like this ability, it lets the engineer do something besides sitting there guarding their machine, but it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to have it not work when engaged or be a powerful free ability. As it is, you can't really do anything with this, unless you're already a space or two away from the machine, and why would you be? I say either let it work when you're engaged, or make it a powerful free ability so you can at least move while firing.

Warpstone Superconductor - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You and all allies within 1 zone of you gain +5/10/15 to casting and spellpower rolls for the next 3 rounds. All affected characters also suffer a 5% increased chance of miscasting.

-Seems like a fine ability, though perhaps a little good. Maybe make it give the same bonus to spellpower rolls to incoming enemy spells?

Incandescent Illuminator - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You toss a flashbang into a zone within medium range, blinding enemies. All enemies in the targeted zone suffer -5/10/15 to hit on their next turn. This penalty is reduced by 5 each turn until their vision fully clears.

Not bad. Do we want another version the unengages everyone (some kind of smoke bomb) or should we leave that to the scouts?

Rapid Fire Modification - 3 Ranks
Type: Ranged Weapon Modification
Effect: Whenever you use a basic attack with this weapon you make 2 attacks instead of 1. Each of these attacks suffers -20/15/10 to hit and wound. (Similar to DW but for ranged)

- This seems like a fine modification, if a little good. Basically if I were using a gun I don't know why I would never take this.

Compact - 2 Ranks
Type: Weapon Modification
Effect: A weapon with this modification becomes easier to shoot on the run. Normal weapons become shoot and move, and shoot and move become skirmish. The weapon loses 2/1 to minimum and maximum damage.

-I feel this is a really good weapon modification. It adds bonuses and penalties that alter the use of the weapon tremendously.

New ability ideas:

Simple Barricade - 2 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: A barricade is erected up to 1/2 zones away. Any character that wishes to move past this barricade must spend at least one turn climbing over it. Example, Orc is two zones away from an enginner, the engineer throws up a barricade in the zone between them, the Orc can't dash past the barricade, and must instead, move to the zone next to him, then on his second turn can charge the engineer.

-Basically the old ability Barricade. Also though just making it a standard ability, because having a ton of barricades out won't do too much (essentially makes everyone who tries to attack the engineer in melee have the penalties of heavy armor.)

Dangerous Terrain - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Simple Barricade
Type: Passive
Effect: All barricades made by the engineer are armed with a variety of defensive items. Any character moving through a barricade must pass a test (Ag vs. Engineer's Wp) or fail to pass the barricade.

-Obviously works better if Simple Barricade is an ability. Could be really, really annoying. Might work better if failure resulted in damage instead.

Self Destruct - 3 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: The engineer overloads the war machine causing it to explode. All units within 1/2/3 zones take an automatic hit from the war machine. Units in the same zone take full damage, units a zone away take 75%, two zones 50%, and three zones 25%. The engineer must be in the same zone as the war machine to activate this ability and is automatically wounded and takes the maximum damage possible.

-Silly obviously. Might be better as a misfire possibility, or maybe even both.

Flying Apparatus - 3 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: The engineer activates a personal flying device, while the device is in effect the engineer may only be hit with ranged attacks. After the first the engineer must make a Wp roll to keep the machine from failing. Each turn the machine continues to work the roll gains a cumulative 20/15/10 penalty. When the machine fails the engineer plummets to the ground taking an automatic 3-10 damage and is dazed for 1 round.

-I just threw the numbers out to have something, but I figure a quick getaway device sounds fun. Should probably include some other modifications like you can't use warmachines while in the air or something.

Translocation Device - 3 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: The engineer attempts to use an experimental device to instantly transport him across the battlefield. The engineer chooses a target zone and then rolls a d6 on the following table.

1 - The engineer arrives in a random zone, partially inside of the terrain. The engineer takes 1-10 damage trying to extricate themselves.
2 - The engineer arrives in the same zone they were in before, dazed from the experience.
3 - The engineer arrives in a random zone and is dazed from the sudden shift.
4 - The engineer arrives in a random zone.
5 - The engineer arrives a zone away from the target (random).
6 - The engineer arrives safely in the zone they targeted.

-Sample table that's not very good at all. Again, another oh shit somebody got to my cannon move.

Super-Enhanced Edge - 2 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Weapon Modification
Effect: A weapon with this modification deals double damage, but has a 50% chance to break every time it makes a successful hit roll. This modification may only be applied to melee weapons.

-A bit more extreme than most of the modifications we've seen, both new and old, but it does give a potential use for having extra hand weapons.

Scope - 2 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Weapon Modification
Effect: Adds an additional range category to the weapon. Weapons with a scope suffer a -20/15 penalty to hit at short range and a +5/10 to hit at longer ranges. Only applies to black-powder weaponry.

-Exactly the same as the old one, but I know for a fact that Armand loved this modification and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Widened Barrel - 2 Ranks
Requirements: ???
Type: Weapon Modification
Effect: Weapon loses one range category but the weapon gains +10/15 to wound and +1/2 maximum damage

-Could be a bit much, numbers aren't my strong suit today, but you get the idea. Opposite of Scope.

Alright, I need to take a break now. I'll try to come up with some more in a bit.
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Post  DemonicFerret Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:06 am

Remote Fire: You're quite right, it should be usable while engaged. I don't remember why I thought it shouldn't... made sense at the time.
Warpstone Superconductor: Again, quite right. Making it affect enemy casts as well is a good idea.
Incandescent Illuminator: I don't think being engaged is enough of an inconvenience to require more abilities that disengage you.
Rapid Fire Modification: Too good.
Compact: Good idea... My exploitation sense is going off, but I'm not sure how it would be done.
Barricade: Seems fine. Might be underpowered, if anything.
Dangerous Terrain: Terrifying. Damage on failure would be better.
Self Destruct: I like it as both an ability, and a misfire. It should also cause FF. (I assume all the misfires are going to have FF turned on, as well.)
Flying Apparatus: Should specify you can only MAKE ranged attacks as well, and that you can't fire your war machine (without using Remote Fire, at least.) Might also want to forbid casting spells while flying, or else I will be taking this ability ASAP. If weakened with the above suggestions, I think the damage when it fails would be too high. Might not even need the damage.
Translocation Device: I like. I think you meant to add the following, or something similar: "Add +0/1/2 to your D6 roll." Otherwise it's only 1 rank.
Super-Enhanced Edge: Interesting idea, but it would stop being used as soon as people start using magic weapons that they don't want to risk.
Scope: I would change the hit modification part as follows: "Suffers -X to hit at all ranges other than the one added, but +X at the additional range." Numbers would need adjusting from the current.
Widened Barrel: I like.

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Post  FlyingPinkPony Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:15 pm

I'll give a real quick reply before bedtime. Sorry I'd give more but I've had an 18 hour day.

Remote Fire - I'm not sure if I like it usable while engaged. Overall I do like the ability though.

Warpstone Superconductor - I had a very similar idea to this except that it powered up all spells entering and leaving the zone, making it a little more high risk/backfireable. I like the idea overall but it needs some tweaking.

Rapid Fire Modification - Do you believe the ability is unsalvagable or just that the current numbers are too high?

Barricade - I'd rather it be like the other barricade ability in the old tree with a set amount of wounds. Hit automatically etc. And placed between zones that disallows passage between them for enemies.

Dangerous Terrain - I like a barricade buff, perhaps add a thorns style ability?

Self Destruct - The range is too large for starters. I don't think it should effect more than 1 zone in either direction. Also with the inability for FF to work with casting it shouldn't apply to this ability either. As such it needs some numbers tweaking. I also feel it would be better as a 2 pt ability.

Flying Apparatus - I like it. This could potentially even be an epic. The other option I was thinking about for an epic was some sort of giant steamtankish construct thing.

Translocation Device - Eehhhhhh.... I feel very meh about this ability. Should be a little more targeted imo. I also don't think it needs its own misfire chart.

Super Enhanced Edge - I like the idea a lot actually. Numbers need some small tweaks and it would need a clause that the weapon is fixed between adventures etc.

Scope - I don't know if adding the +X only at the additional range would make it even taking. I'll give it some thought.
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:34 am

Engineering Modifications - War Machines

War Machine - 3 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: Create an immobile war machine in your zone. This weapon can be fired as an action using your BS to hit and WP to wound. It has long range and deals 6-10/8-13/10-16 damage and is armor piercing. Use your WP vs T for bonus damage. On any hit roll of 1-10 on the attack misfires (See misfire rules below). Once created the war machine is immobile. If the engineer possesses a war machine variant skill then .

Elemental Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Your war machine's range is reduced to medium. Choose a damage type upon creation from (fire, ice, lightning, poison). It deals 8 -12 /10 - 14 damage of the type chosen, instead of the war machines normal damage. This War Machine uses WP vs WP for its bonus damage and gains an additional benefit based off the element chosen. Lightning deals additional damage equal to the targets armor. Fire deals an additional 1 damage / round for 3 rounds. Ice slows the target making the target immobile next turn. Poison lowers all the targets rolls by 10 next round.

Rapid Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Your War Machine your war machine can make up to three attacks each round dealing 4-8 / 6-12 physical damage. At short range or less these attacks deal an additional 1/2 damage. This weapon has a -10 penalty to hit/wound and an increased 5% misfire chance for each zone to the target. If any of the attacks is a misfire any following attacks automatically miss.

Experimental Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Increase your War Machine's range to very long. It deals an additional 2/4 maximum damage. The weapons misfire chance increases to 20%. In addition add +1 to any misfire rolls.

Blast Weapon - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: This weapon deals 4-8 / 6-12 damage instead of its normal damage. It deals half weapon damage to all other enemies in the targeted zone. You only deal bonus damage with this attack to the primary target. You subtract 1 on any misfire rolls for this weapon. This weapon loses the armor piercing ability.


I made some tweaking to the basic war machines. This does not include any ideas such as Remote Fire etc. The other change which i may have mentioned before is that War Machines will be allowed an equipment slot similar to minions. Different Variants may have different items equipped. At some point i need to toss together a misfire table but I've been uninspired and its been difficult to make an interesting table. One alternative is to actually bring a war machine model to the field when summoned. It could have its own stats and such nonsense but I feel for the time being it wouldn't be worth it. It would open up new options etc for skills and tactics but I feel its already rules heavy enough. Thoughts?
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Post  deadlychair Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:42 am

For Elemental Weapon's Ice, Fire, and Poison variants: Do you have to make the to-wound roll for the special affects to activate? I assume yes, otherwise Ice could be absolutely absurd.
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:05 pm

That was the intent yeah.
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Post  FlyingPinkPony Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:22 am

Any other comments on war machines or are we good on that part?
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Post  DemonicFerret Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:04 pm

Does it explicitly say somewhere that all types of elemental damage ignore armor? (Since I believe that was your intent) Would that also apply to spells that deal, say, fire damage?

As far as war machines in general, I feel better about the more stable damage range, but I think the DPR may still be too high. We'll see. I would change Rapid Fire as follows:

Rapid Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: War Machine
Type: War Machine Variant.
Effect: Your War Machine your war machine can make up to three attacks each round dealing 4-8 / 6-12 physical damage. At short range or less these attacks deal an additional 1/2 damage. All attacks have a -10 penalty to hit/wound and a 5% increased misfire chance for each attack being made beyond the first, If any of the attacks is a misfire, any following attacks automatically miss.

This way you can double attack semi-reliably, or triple attack with larger penalties.

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