Revamped and Completed Trees

This is reserved for a compilation of all the completed trees we have finished revamping. As each is finished they will be posted here.

First up in my mind is one of the most solid trees we possess. Please look over them with extreme scrutiny since this is the last test before they become "Official" and we ignore them for quite some time and consider them solid for the new players to invest in. Many of the skills here remain unchanged I have placed a * before those skills. If you have read through it all and approve of all the changes and do not see any room for improvement please post anyways with an approved stamp. As always suggestions and comments are appreciated, I do miss thingsm I am just one pony.

Here we are, our first official path up for massive review.


Path of the Marksman (36) (51 w/ all Specialties)

Added Descriptor
The Marksman is the master of ranged combat, be it throwing knives, guns, or bows. They can disable to take down foes from afar and lay down incredibly amounts of firepower onto the battlefield. They support their group by causing tremendous damage and taking out enemy ranged units from a safe distance.

*Accuracy - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Lowers an enemies dodge and block chance against your ranged attacks by 2/5%.

*Headshot - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: 1/3/5% chance to perform a critical hit with a ranged weapon.

REMOVED/MOVED to Path of the Assassin
Expose Weakness - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Headshot 3
Type: Passive
Effect: Every time you fail to wound with a ranged attack, your next ranged attack against that target has a +5/10% crit chance.

Changed Req from Headshot to accuracy
Steady Hand - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Accuracy
Type: Passive
Effect: Increases critical hit chance on ranged weapons by 2/5% when an enemy is not in any adjacent zone.

also included accuracy as a requirement
Quick Adjust- 2 Ranks
Requirements: Accuracy
Type: Passive
Effect: Each time you miss an opponent with a ranged weapon you gain a +5/10 bonus on your next hit roll with that weapon. This effect stacks each time you miss.

reworded
Pierce - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Headshot
Type: Passive
Effect: There is a 50/100% chance that any critical ranged attack pierces the target, granting you an additional free basic attack against another foe in that zone.

Changed heavily
Sniper - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Take Aim
Type: Passive
Effect: At the end of each turn you do not move or are engaged gain a +1/2 damage bonus to ranged attacks. This bonus stacks up to 5 times and is lost immediately upon moving or becoming engaged.

Removed the exception rule, Since now ranged attacks can be used in melee assuming you are not engaged.
Point Blank shot- 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack - Requires Ranged Weapon.
Effect: Add +10/20/30 to hit and add +10/20/30% critical strike chance.

Overhauled, Turned Epic
Volley - 1 Rank
Requirements: 2 of Quick Adjust, Snipe, Take Aim and Weapon Specialist (of the appropriate weapon)
Type: Epic Ranged Attack
Effect: Perform a basic ranged attack against all foes in range, or attack the same target 3 times.

Added ignoring dodge chance
Unavoidable Shot - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack
Effect: Ignore 50/100% of your opponents armor, dodge and block chance.

*Crippling Shot - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack
Effect: This attack has +0/15/30 to wound. If it wounds the target the target may not move the next round.

Buffed damage and made it auto-wound. Added Requirement
Wounding Shot - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Crippling Shot
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack
Effect: This attack automatically wounds but deals no damage. The target suffers an additional 1/2/3 bleeding damage each round until the end of combat. Each time the target is dealt damage increase this bleeding damage by 1/2/3.

*Far Shot - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Sniper
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack
Effect: Increase the range of the attack by 1/2/3 zones. Each zone between you and your target increases the critical strike chance by 5%.

Removed Powerful element, made it ranged only.
Take Aim- 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Ranged Ability
Effect: Add +15/30 to hit and wound roll and increase your critical hit chance by 10/20% for your next ranged attack.

Bow Skills
*Bow Specialist - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Raises the Strength cap of any bow wielded by 5/10 points.

*Double Shot - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Bow Specialist
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack - Requires a Bow
Effect: Can make an attack at two foes in the same zone. Each attack suffers -15/10/5 to S but has an additional +0/5/10 to hit.

Crossbow Skills
*Crossbow Specialist - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Reduce the S penalty for shooting and moving with a crossbow by 5/10S. Any hand crossbows you wield have an additional 5/10S. In addition increase the maximum damage dealt by any crossbow or handcrossbow by 1/2.

Crippling Bolt - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Crossbow Specialist
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack - Requires a Crossbow
Effect: If this attack wounds the target they suffer -10/20/30 Ws and Bs and suffer an additional 1/2/3 damage from all attacks for the next 2 rounds.

Black Powder Skills (Pistols and Handguns)
Changed from bonus damage to critical chance, overall buffed.
Black Powder Specialist - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: The first shot you make with a blackpowder weapon has an additional range and an increased critical strike chance of 5/20%.

Gave a set value instead of Armor Piercing, also gave bonus to wound roll based on armor value as well
Armor Breaker - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Blackpowder Specialist
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack - Requires a blackpowder weapon.
Effect: This attack has a 1/3/5% critical chance and +1/3/5 to wound per point of armor the target has. Lower the targets armor by 2/4/6 for the duration of the encounter.

Throwing (Light)
Throwing Specialist (Light) - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Lowers any opponents dodge chance when you use light throwing weapons by 5/10% in addition add +5/10 to the wound roll.

Made it a melee or ranged ability for added usefulness. In addition gave a bonus to hit and wound.
Fan of Knives - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Throwing Specialist
Type: Powerful Melee/Ranged Attack - Requires a Light Throwing Weapon.
Effect: Make a basic ranged throwing attack against all foes in your either your current zone (Melee) or up to 1 zone away (Ranged). These attacks gain +0/5/10 to hit and wound.

Significantly Buffed - HTS was crap before.
Throwing Weapon (Heavy)
Throwing Weapon Specialist (Heavy) - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Increase the critical strike chance of heavy throwing weapons by 2/5% at short range, and 5/10% at melee range.

Lowered crit chance and removed immobilizing element. Instead added effect if the target moves they take damage.
*Impale - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Throwing Specialization (Heavy) 2
Type: Powerful Ranged Attack - Requires a Heavy Throwing Weapon.
Effect: If this attack has an additional 5/15/25% critical chance. If the target moves in the next 1/2/3 rounds they take damage equal to the weapon damage used for this attack ignoring armor.

We could use another skill or two. How do we feel about this tree now w/changes.

Point Blank Shot is a "Melee Ranged Attack"? I have no idea what that means. The Ranged keyword needs to be updated to reflect the "engaged" change, it currently just says it can't be used on targets in the same zone. "Melee" needs clarification for me too - does that mean it has to be used in "Melee" as in the range, or does it imply that you are using your "Melee" weapon for the attack? I would still favor an exception on Point Blank Shot saying you can use it while engaged.

Wounding Shot: Does "Each time the target is wounded in combat" mean "each time the target takes damage from an attack", or "each time the target has a successful To-Wound roll made against them"?

Take Aim: This doesn't need to be a "Ranged" ability, it doesn't have a target. Rather, the effect text should specify "your next ranged attack". We might also want to specify that it has to be your next action, or you lose the bonus.

K Point Blank shot is cleared up a lot. I agree, keywording is something we need to deal with. Wounding shot also cleared up.

Take Aim needs to be a Ranged attack due to the engagement rules and our supposed Keyword consistency.

Put Sniper back in. Although changed it significantly.

If these changes get the approval of Ferret and Chair and they have no other complaints we'll put the lid on this tree. Forte if you're still checking your input is also welcome.

Wounding Shot still needs more clarification imo: It should specify "damaged by another attack" or else the bleed damage every turn will increase the bleed damage next turn, and so on.

Even though Take Aim is a Ranged ability, it still needs to specify "your next ranged attack", not just any attack.

Having abilities named "Snipe" as well as "Sniper" is confusing, rename Snipe to Longshot or something.

The new Sniper could turn out really strong, depending on how the NPCs play/how well a party tanks them. I like the concept though, so I guess we'll see.

Overall I think we're basically good on this one. Throw up another.

K changes were made. Tossing up another one.

K little response on Fury, if anyone can come up with another good attack or two for fury that would be awesome but for the interest of time we are going to call it good and move it.


Path of the Scout

*Duck and Cover - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Gain a 5/10% dodge chance against projectiles.

I feel this needs something different
Mobile Fighter - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Any turn you move you gain DR 1/2 and an additional 2/5% dodge chance.

Changed wording and mechanics a little so it doesnt require player input mid-enemy turn
Roll - 1 Rank
Requirements: Duck and Cover 1 Rank.
Type: Passive
Effect: If you dodge a projectile you are allowed to move 1 zone for free at the start of your next turn.

Longstride - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Free Ability
Effect: You immediately shift one zone. You may use this ability 1/2 times an encounter.

Disengage - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: Make an attack and shift one zone. This attack adds +5/10/15 to your hit roll and an additional 3/6/10% dodge chance for 1 round.

Fine for PvE but it needs some adjustments for PvP still
Stealth - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You cannot be the target of any attack while in stealth. Any attack you make while in stealth has a 10/30/50/% critical chance and immediately ends this ability. You may not move more than one zone a round in stealth.

*Stalker - 1 Rank
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: You may begin combat in stealth. This counts as your use for the battle.

*Camouflage - 2 Ranks.
Requirements: Stealth
Type: Passive
Effect: Adds +10/20 to your hit roll while in stealth. Also increase your initiative roll by 15/30.

*Hunter - 2 Ranks.
Requirements: Stealth
Type: Passive
Effect: You have a 20/40% chance to not break stealth when attacking. This chance is halved if the attack is melee.

*Shadow Stride - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Stealth
Type: Powerful Ability - Requires Stealth
Effect: Move 2/3 zones.

Buffed it a bit adding crit chance.
Backstab - 3 ranks
Requirements: Stealth
Type: Powerful Melee Attack - Attack from Stealth Only
Effect: The attack gains +5/15/25 to hit and wound and ignores armor with a 10% increased critical strike chance.

Shadow Shot - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Backstab 1.
Type: Passive
Effect: You may treat backstab as a short/medium ranged ability.

Flanking - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive.
Effect: You gain a 5/10% critical chance in melee against any enemy not engaging you.

Removed because it encourages delays and lame playing styles. And is IMBA in PvP.
Catch your Breath - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Vanish 2
Type: Passive
Effect: While stealthed you recover 5/10% of your W each round up to a maximum of 50% of your hp.

Thoughts? Ability suggestions?

You wanted Fury powerfuls, I have a couple ideas.

Reckless Assault - 2 Ranks
Req: ?
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: This attack suffers -10 to hit, but gains +10/+20 to wound and +2/+4 damage.

Overpower - 2 Ranks
Req: ?
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: You may only this attack on an opponent who dodged or blocked one of your attacks last turn. This attack may not be dodged or blocked, and it gains +5/+15 to hit and wound.


Also this passive came to me while I was making those.

Furious Stance - 1 Rank
Req: Blade Rhythm or Overwhelming Assault
Type: Passive
Effect: Every time you take damage in melee with Blade Rhythm or Overwhelming Assault active, you gain a stack of that stance's effect.

Mobile Fighter idea: Whenever you move, you gain 3/6% dodge chance for each zone you moved until the beginning of your next turn.

Disengage: I'm pretty sure I wrote this ability originally, but I dislike it now. There are enough ways to do this, and combining an attack and a move and a dodge buff is clunky and silly. Also, the first rank gives the most significant benefit - I would remove it, but if you want to keep it, change both buffs to 0/5/10.

Stealth: The pvp problem we discussed was that you could use stealth to instantly close with any ranged character. Giving enemies (maybe only player enemies) some kind of opposed BS vs Agi check to spot the stealther could be good, but it doesn't help the caster type ranged characters. It could be BS or WP vs Agi, I suppose, but that's clunky. Such a check should favor the stealther, and it should take into account range from the target. Spotting a stealthed scout two or three zones away should be very difficult, but one that's one or zero zones away (i.e., one that's closing to melee) should be much, much easier.

Actually, rather than an opposed check, they should make a BS roll vs the stealther's Agi + 50 or some flat value. Stealth should be semi-reliable, you don't want to get spotted by random goblins because you rolled a 1 on your stealth check. The BS check should get +20 if the stealther is in your zone, and take a 20 point penalty each zone farther away.

Hunter: Is potentially really gay, especially in pvp. If we end up using a stealth roll like the one above, this ability should give a bonus to the enemy BS check.

Shadow Stride: Should specify "this ignores the normal restriction on movement in stealth", just to keep things clear.

Backstab: Scale the crit chance too. I think 5/15/25% is not unreasonable there as well - you're only doing it once, and there are abilities elsewhere that give just as much crit.

Will edit with new abilities thoughts as they come to me.

Currently Opposed checks do work like the way you say although did a little algebra on the formula. A spellpower roll for example is regarded as an opposed check. It is basically their Wp + 40 vs you Wp + your roll. So that aspect would remain unchanged, and isn't quite the Ag+ d100 vs Wp +d100 randomness clusterfuck that would normally occur, we're in agreement that would be bad.

Backstab - Not going increase the crit chance on this one. It would be already a 75% crit chance with that ability alone (50% from stealth +25 from this one.), that's a tad too high. The main bonus is to ensure that your stealth attack hits. I would do a scaling 0/5/10% if you'd prefer though.

Hunter - I would be okay with removing I just wanted to give stealth characters the option of not entirely being the one hit wonder. If removed I would like some other way for stealth characters to not entirely be one time use.

ShadowStride- Wording fixed.

Disengage - We can tweak it but Scouts do need an ability to get them out of combat. I'll think on it.

As for Stealth itself I think if a foe spends an action to make a search check.
Bs + d100 vs Ag +40 they should be able to break the users stealth. How's that sound. Maybe with an additional +10 for every zone the scout is away from the target. This way targets actively hunting the scout will have a decent chance of finding them while foes that engaged or not paying attention have 0.

Yeah, I seem to have forgotten how opposed rolls work. And how Stealth works.

Hunter doesn't need to be removed, it just needs a PVP clause of some sort.

I think I would like Disengage better if it lost the dodge buff. I feel like it's trying to do too many things at once right now.

The search check you propose sounds good, but I think distance should be a bigger influence. If you can stay three zones away stealthed, there should be near no chance of someone finding you. (As long as you're not shooting them, and that's a Hunter issue.)

I think Pony's idea for stealth breaking is fine. This way it's balanced for PVP and it makes sniper characters actually good at finding stealthed characters like they should be. If you want both maybe have a modifier based on zone distance, but considering how few zones are involved in most combats I don't really think it's much of a problem.

How's this.

Stealth - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You cannot be the target of any attack while in stealth. Any attack you make while in stealth has a 10/30/50/% critical chance and immediately ends this ability. Moving more than one zone or charging immediately ends stealth's effect. Any enemy may spend their action to try and spot you in stealth. This is an opposed roll of their BS + d100 vs Your AG + 40 + 20 for each zone you are away from the target.


It's less points but how do we feel about changing Disengage to something as simple as this.
Disengage - 1 Rank
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: You become unengaged from all targets.

Also an option is something like this.

Slippery - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Disengage
Type: Passive
Effect: You have a 20/40% chance at the beginning of each turn to automatically become disengaged from every enemy engaging you.

Why not both?

Those are both good, I like them quite a bit more than current Disengage.

As for Stealth, keep the 20 point penalty per zone, but lower the base difficulty to 30 instead of 40. Then a scout one zone away has a 50/50 chance of being seen (assuming equal stats), which I think is fair. A scout IN your zone has a 70/30 chance of being seen, which I also think is fair, given that scouts should not be standing around stealthed in enemy zones. If you can't use your scout abilities to close the final zone and attack in the same turn, you're doing it wrong.

Also, the "equal stats" assumption is a big one, because only very rare characters will have BS that high. This solution also doesn't provide anything for casters - are we okay with casters in pvp having no choice but to fight scouts in melee?

I think it's fine, as this actually gives casters a reason to put points into Bs and not just use it as a dump stat.

I agree with chair, its not so much casters that suffer just people who use BS as a complete dump stat. If you dump any stat you should suffer a little when an opponent has an ability or build to exploit it. We wouldn't want to nerf casting simply because most scouts would treat WP as a dump stat. We'll compromise. I don't want to change the +40 because it now the official default roll. However we'll lower the range penalty to 15/zone. This will grant a scout in melee a 60% chance of being spotted, and then 45/30/15% for later zones.

For now unless there are more final comments I'll make the official edits and call this tree good.

Commander

Path of the Commander (41)
Keyword: Formation: Formations are similar to stances. All allies within range are treated as though in the formation. Allies can choose not to participate in the formation should they choose.

Keyword: Formation- Formations treated as Powerful Free Abilities. In addition when they are activated any number of allies may choose to join the formation assuming they are in the same zone. The more allies that join the more powerful the formation. Should an ally move or be slain they are removed from the formation and the overall strength of the formation is lessened. Should the commander move or perish the formation is immediately disbanded. Once a formation has been formed no other players may join.

All out Assault - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Formation
Effect: Each ally in the formation adds +2/5% critical strike chance to the formation. While in this formation blocking and dodging are impossible.

Shield Wall - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Formation
Effect: Each ally in the formation adds +2/5% block chance to the formation. While in this formation critical strikes are impossible.


Ordered Volley - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ranged Ability
Effect: 1/2/3 Allies can make a free ranged attack, assuming they are within range, against the target using your Bs.

Strike of 1000 Blades - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If this attack hits an ally also in melee can make a free basic melee attack. If that attack hits another ally may make a melee attack. A maximum of 1/2/3 Allies can make attacks off of this attack. Each player may only make one attack.

Rally - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: All allies within 1 zone recover 5/10/15% of their max W and gain 1/2/3 armor and damage for the next round.

Flanking Maneuver - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: When there are more allied units in your zone then enemy units, you and all of your allies gain a +1/3/5% critical strike chance in melee.

Opening Strike - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If it hits all allies that strike the target gain +10/20 on their next attack roll to hit against that target.

Ripping Strike - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Opening Strike
Type: Passive
Effect: When using Opening Strike if the attack also wounds all allies gain a +10/20 on their roll to wound as well.

Pincer Attack - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Charge
Effect: Choose an enemy within charge range. You and an ally also within charge range charge the target. Roll to Hit and Wound together. If you each hit you each gain +5/10/15 to wound. If you both wound you each gain +1/3/5 damage.



Oath - Oaths are passives that target yourself and a single ally in your zone. Each turn you may change the target of an oath, or switch which oath you are using at the beginning of your turn. Only one oath may be active at a time. If your oath target moves out of your zone any bonus they would gain from your oath is lost.

Sword Brother - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target successfully hits your target in melee the other player gains +5/10 to their first hit roll next turn.

Sword Brother - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target is dealt damage the other player gains a +5/10% block chance for 1 round.

Blood Brother - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target successfully deals damage to your target in melee the other player gains +20/40% of the damage dealt to their first damage roll next turn.

True Oath - 1 Rank
Requirements: 2 Oaths max rank.
Type: Passive
Effect: You may have more than one oath active at a time but they must all be bound to the same ally.


Conscripts - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Summon Ability
Effect: Summons 2 conscripts. The summons by default are conscripts but 0/1/2 of the conscripts may be another of the summons listed below.



	Ws	Bs	S	T	Ag	Wp	W	Wpn Damage
Conscript	8	8	8	8	8	8	4	Two-Handed Weapon (Pitchfork etc) 2-8
Conscript Archer	8	14	8	8	12	8	3	Bow- Range Medium, 3-6, Dagger 2-3
Conscript Skirmisher	10	12	10	8	14	8	3	Javelin (One Shot - Skirmish) 4-8, Short Sword 3-4, Shield 5% block
Conscript Militia	14	8	12	10	8	10	6	Sword 3-5, Shield 8%, Light armor



Urgent Conscription - Ranks 1
Requirements: Conscripts 3
Type: Passive
Effect: You may use your conscripts ability as a free action. If you do so you only summon a single conscript instead of two.

Inspiring Leader - Ranks 2
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Any summon you control, regardless of tree, gains an additional +2/4 Ws,Bs, S, and +1/2W.

Summon Soldier - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: Summons a soldier with 1/2/3 pieces of equipment from the list below.



	Ws	Bs	S	T	Ag	Wp	W	Equipment
Solider	12	10	12	12	10	12	6	Hand Weapon (2-5), Light Armor and Shield.


A soldier can be equipped with various equipment at the time of summoning. Each piece of equipment adds different benefits. These weapons may be fluffed however the commander wishes but add the following benefits.

Great Weapon - 5-9 damage 2 handed, +4 S.

Improved One Handed Weapon- 4-6 damage. +4 Ws.

Heavy Armor - 2 Armor, +4 T.

Large Shield - 10% block chance, +4 Ag.

Protective Charm - 5% Ward, +8 Wp.

Throwing Weapon - 4-10 short range, One-Shot skirmish. +2 Ws & Bs.

Bow - Medium Ranged, Move and shoot, +4 Bs.

Bodyguard - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Soldier 1
Type: Passive
Effect: Your summoned soldier gains an additional 2/4W. In addition if it is the same zone as you whenever you take damage it absorbs 25/50% of the damage you receive.

Here are my initial thoughts on commander -

Formations should be removed. While I enjoy the idea and the fluff behind it adds a layer of unneeded complexity to the situation especially now as players all act during the same turn. Oaths and Formations were a tad redundant and the flexibility and simplicity of oaths in their strength.

Summons need to scale. I have a few ideas mainly which involve your summons gain 10% of your stats. It isn't a lot but it will help. I am considering tossing in a few abilities like.

Arms Trainer - 1 Rank
Requirements: 1 Commander Summon
Type: Passive
Effect: Your commander summons gain 20% of your WS instead of 10%. Your non-commander summons gain +5 Ws.

The commander summons need a rework as well for 2 reasons. A) They need it. B) The equipment list needs to be revised. Suggestions on this are welcome.

Oaths also need a little reworking with the new initiative changes. Suggestions are welcome.

I will be working on this at some point in the near future but redoing all these trees is incredibly draining. Any help would be much appreciated.


The other offtopic thing we need to decide on is a good epic ability for path of the scout.

I am leaning towards something like this.

Untouchable - 1 Rank
Requirements:
Type: Epic Ability
Effect: For the next 3 rounds you may not be engaged or immobilized. While this effect is active you may shift 1 zone for free at the beginning of your turn and gain a 40% increased dodge chance against all attacks. For each zone you move you increase your critical strike chance by 10%.

So for the commander's summons I am scrapping the old ideas of conscripts and a larger bodyguard. This is for two reasons.

A) Having every person with Path of Commander summoning multiple minions is difficult for the admin and adds unnecessary bookkeeping.

B) Nobody seemed actually interested in owning two trash minions, they wanted one slightly less trashy minion.

C) For fluff purposes the ideas of conscripts and equipment was very constricting. Instead I propose something like the following.

D) I am considering adding an equipment slot to all minions. This would be an additional slot where loot and treasure could be placed. This would also apply for spellcaster summons. The items will typically be minor but allow summoners to ideally not fall behind once equipment for players keeps improving. I was thinking of something like "Minion Armor - Your minion gains +2 armor". If you were a necromancer commander for example you could equip that item into either your summon zombie spell or your summon minion ability. Whenever you summoned that minion that minion would gain +2 armor.

Summon Minion - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Summon Ability
Effect: Summons a minion with 6/8/10 in all base stats and 3/4/5 in W. This minion deals 2-5 damage in melee. Minions also gain an additional 10% of all your statistics when summoned.

Skilled Trainer - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Summon Minion
Type: Passive
Effect: Your summon minion gains an additional 10/20% of your WS. All other summons you control gain +2/5 WS.

- Here is where I am having some debate. I am debating between restricting minion abilities/job types to ranged support, bodyguard, or brute(DPS). The alternative is to let players take all of them having a much stronger/more flexible minion should they choose to invest a significant number of points into them.

Ranged Support - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Summon Minion
Type: Minion Role
Effect: Your minion gains an additional 20/40% of your BS (total of 30/50%) and AG and a medium ranged attack that deals 3-6/4-8 damage. All other minions you control gain +2/5 BS & AG.

Bodyguard - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Summon Minion
Type: Minion Role
Effect: Your summon minion gains an additional 10/20% of your T and W. All other minions you control gain +2/5 T and 1/2W. They also gain a 5/10% block chance and 1/2 armor.

Brute - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Summon Minion
Type: Minion Role
Effect: Your summon minion gains an additional 20/40% of your S (30/50% total). They also increase their melee damage to 4-8/5-10 damage.

*Considering leaving this one out*
Equip Minion - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Summon Minion
Type: Passive
Effect: Your summon minion gains 1/2 options of the following. A) +1 armor. B) +2 maximum damage. You may select each option more than once.

Companion - 1 Rank
Requirements: Equip Minion
Type: Passive
Effect: Your summon minion gains an additional equipment slot.

I like all of these ideas, though I do have to say I myself was a fan of the two smaller minions over the single bodyguard.

I think the one minion approach is good for a slightly different, but still paperwork-related reason: It makes it reasonable to allow people to use multiple summons simultaneously, if they have them. Limiting players to one summon at a time eliminates the potential for some of the synergy between Commander and the Lores with summons, and that makes builds using both less attractive, which I think would be a shame.

Assuming the Lore summons were also only one creature, no player would ever have more than two creatures up. (With two exceptions: A character with multiple Lores, which I think is unlikely/not worth worrying about at this stage, and the Lore of Tzeentch which we've already discussed changing.)

I ran some numbers to see what kind of stats a minion could end up with with those skills (which I can post if you're interested, it's pretty boring though), and I think they're mostly at the right place already. A few comments:

Lose "Equip Minion", it's unnecessary - 5-10 damage and 2 armor is plenty, especially since 2 is the normal max armor for players currently.
Take Brute down to 15/30% extra Strength. Bump Skilled Trainer up to 15/30% WS.
After these changes, a commander with 40s across the board and all the melee minion skills would have:
WS26 S26 T22 W17
That seems appropriate. Wounds might be too high, what do you think?

General Commander thoughts:
I would make Strike of 1000 Blades just a melee version of Ordered Volley. It's less complicated and more reliable.
Rally: Is Commander supposed to be a healer? Instead of regaining Wounds, they could gain an equal amount of DR, and then it's not really healing.
Flanking Maneuver: The "outnumber your enemy" mechanic is unique and very appropriate for the Commander. If we wanted more abilities, we could expand this into a theme for the tree and build several more interesting abilities around it.
Opening Strike/Ripping Strike: Kinda boring, is it really worth 4 points? Could combine into one
Pincer Attack: The first rank is way better than the later ranks. Do 0/10/20 to wound, damage is good.

Oaths: The three oaths you have are good. If we're removing formations, we should expand Oaths. Here are a couple more.

Fraternal Bindings - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target is dealt damage, that damage is split evenly between the two of you. At Rank 2, you and your oath target each gain 1 armor against any attacks that deal both of you damage.

Oath of Vengeance - 1 Rank
Requirements: One other Oath
Type: Oath
Effect: Any foe who deals you or your oath target damage receives 1 damage, ignoring DR and armor. If a single attack deals damage to both of you, that foe takes 2 damage.

Even in Death - 1 Ranks
Requirements: True Oath
Type: Epic Oath
Effect: As long as your oath target is alive and in your zone, you cannot be reduced below 1 Wound. You may not change the target of this oath.

One Will - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: You gain 3/6 SR for each ally in your zone.

First off I think the math on those summon stats seems about right. I think when a player reaches the point of having 40W having 17W minions are not unreasonable. A) Because the monsters will be doing significantly more damage. B) The character should be a solid enough tank that having a high W minion is a tad unecessary. I'll change the WS one. Initially it was designed so that it would affect all the summon types but since they are all combinable now anyways it should be increased.

-Strike of 1000 blades, I'll just combine with Ordered Volley.

Opening Strike I can combine into a flat +5/10/15 to hit and wound for all allies. Would make it better for cheaper.

Flanking Maneuver- I agree we should capitalize on this with an additional skill or two.

Rally- Scrapped - Replaced with

At Our Darkest Hour! -or some better name.
Requirements: TBD
Type: Epic Ability
Effect: All allies gain DR equal to 25% of either your WP or T (Whichever is higher). They also gain +5 to all rolls for the next 3 rounds. This is increased to +10 if they are wounded and +20 if they are dying.

Some of these attacks need to be changed due to the new initiative rules. I want to avoid the potential debocle that could ensue.

Pincer Attack - needs some kind of reworking. I'll dwell on it.

As for Oaths they need to get changed a bit I think with the new initiative rules. Both for simplicity and consistancy.

Oath - When you activate an oath you target a single ally or summon. Whenever both of you are in the same zone you gain the benefits mentioned in the oath's description. Only one oath may be active at a time. A little more boring I think but particularly Shield Brother is a lot better.

Shield Brother - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: You and your oath target gain a 5/10% block chance.

Blood Brother - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target successfully deals damage to your target in melee the other player gains +20/40% of the damage dealt to their first damage roll next turn.

-Added a second rank. Took out ignoring DR. It should ignore armor, not both. Also added the melee requirement. Doesn't make sense for a sniper to be taking damage from this ability.
Oath of Vengeance - 2 Ranks
Requirements: One other Oath
Type: Oath
Effect: Any foe who deals you or your oath target damage with a melee attack receives 1/2 damage ignoring armor. If a single attack deals damage to both of you, that foe takes 2 damage instead.

- I like it but how would this be effected by armor? Would you apply armor to both damage rolls or just the higher value? Either way it seems kind of problematic. -
Fraternal Bindings - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Oath
Effect: If you or your oath target is dealt damage, that damage is split evenly between the two of you. At Rank 2, you and your oath target each gain 1 armor against any attacks that deal both of you damage.

True Oath - 1 Rank
Requirements: 2 Oaths
Type: Passive
Effect: You may have more two oaths active at the same time. They must effect the same ally.

- I like it but oaths need to effect both people.
Until Death - 1 Ranks
Requirements: True Oath
Type: Epic Oath
Effect: You and your oath target cannot be reduced to less than 1hp unless the other is Dying (Below 25% W).

- Good but im lowering it to 2/5 for cleaner numbers.
One Will - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: You gain 2/5 SR for each ally in your zone.