Revamping Needed before restart!

Howdy fellas. Ideally we will be restarting the site. Getting it up and running. This is mainly for the two of you most dedicated, ferret, chair, and forte, but if anyone else would like to help it would be appreciated. The following trees will need some revamp before we relaunch.


Apothecary!

Path of the Apothecary
Keywords-
Poison - You may apply a single poison to any weapon you possess. If dual wielding each weapon may possess a different poison. If you hit a foe with a poison multiple times the duration (usually 3 rounds) resets. Its effects are cumulative unless stated otherwise.

Antidote - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: Lowers the duration of any poison by 2/4/All rounds. This ability also heals the target by 5/10/15% of their maximum wounds. This spell can target the caster or any ally in the same zone.

Poison Resistance - 2 Ranks
Requirements: Antidote 1
Type: Passive
Effect: Reduce all poison duration on you by 2/4 rounds.

Deadly Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Any other poison Rank 3.
Type: Poison
Effect: Deals 1/2/3 additional poison damage a round. This lasts 3 rounds. Any additional applications reset the duration.

Slow Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's Agility by 2/4/6 per hit and reduces their dodge and block chance by 1/2/3% for 3 rounds. This effect is cumulative. Applying the poison again resets this duration.

Crippling Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's toughness by 1/2/3 for 3 rounds. This effect is cumulative. Applying the poison again resets this duration.

Weakness Poison - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Poison
Effect: Lowers the enemy's Strength and Weapon skill by 1/2/3 for 3 rounds. This effect is cumulative. Applying the poison again resets this duration.

Poison Specialist - 2 Ranks
Requirements: 1 Rank in 3 different poisons
Type: Passive
Effect: All poisons have an additional 1/2 round duration.

Healing Potion - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Poison Specialist 2
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You or an ally in melee range regains 20/30/40% of their maximum W.

Oil - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Ability - Concoction
Effect: If the attack hits the target is covered in oil. The next time this battle that target receives any source of fire damage they ignite dealing 1d6 damage for 2/4/6 rounds.

Boiling Tar - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: - If this attack hits the target suffers 4/8 damage and cannot move on their next turn.

Alchemist's Fire - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: If it hits the target suffers 1 fire damage for 3/6 rounds.

Strong Arm - 1 Rank
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Any Concoction attack now has medium range instead of short.

Unstable Concoction - 3 Ranks
Requirements: 1 rank in 3 concoctions.
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Attack
Effect: Can do an attack that combines the effect of 2 different Concoctions, it also affects 0/1/2 additional opponents in the same zone.

Poisoned Bottle - 1 Rank
Requirements: 1 Poison max rank, 1 concoction max rank.
Type: Passive
Effect: You may apply a poison to any concoction attack.





Juggernaut!


Path of the Juggernaut



Power Strike - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: Use S in place of Ws for the toHit roll. Gain +0/10/20S. In addition this attack ignores armor.

Killing Blow - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If the opponent is below 25/33/50% maximum health this attack automatically criticals (deals double damage).

Whirling Slash- 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: If you miss your target or your opponent dodges the attack you may make another attack against that foe at +5/10/15S. If this attack misses or is dodged you may make another attack at +10/20/30S.

Ground and Pound
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack.
Effect: Hit as normal, make a wound roll using S vs S

Bull Rush - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack
Effect: You can attack any foe in your zone. If you hit you may move 1 zone and attack again. If that attack hits you may make one final move make another attack. Use your S for the attack roll instead of your Ws. This attack automatically wounds and deals 1 damage instead of your regular weapon damage. Apply bonus damage as normal. When making this attack add +0/15/30 Strength.


Veteran Warrior - 1 Rank
Requirements: 1 Rank in any 3 Powerful melee attacks.
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You may use a single Powerful melee attack from the Juggernaut Path that you have already used.

Armor Shredder - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: Ignore the first 1/2 points of any opponents armor with melee weapons.

Cleave - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Melee Attack
Effect: This attack suffers -10/5 S. If it drops your foe you can immediately strike another foe in the same zone.

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Passive
Effect: +5/10 on any wounding rolls with any two handed weapons.

We'll be ignoring the race specific ones for the time being. Although they also will receive some love.

What I think they need for starters.

Apothecary- The feel of this tree seems off. It feels like distinctly 3 separate trees but each concept (healer/Apoth, grenadier, and poison) doesn't seem complete on its own. If anyone has ideas on how to split these options with larger themes I would be all ears. Alternatively increasing the synergy between these two trees would also be useful. My initial feeling is to pull poison from the tree entirely and place more emphasis on the traditional alchemist healing/poison.

Potential options that spring to mind include -
Elemental potions - tossed of course
Something involving blood of the enemy - Requiring melee damage dealt to activate
More useful in the way of healing without being too much. Temp Wounds etc.

Having more thrown options would increase the usefullness and utility of the combination effects. If anyone has status effects in mind for thrown alchemical solutions they would be appreciated.


Initially I like the juggernaut tree but it needs much more in the way of passives. It is meant to the be the traditional 2Hander tree.

Grace- 1H only
Juggernaut - 2H
Guardian - 1H + Shield
Fury - DW

Although of course you should be able to still benefit immensely while not using the associated weapons. Just a skill or two would help make that fluff/synergy clear.

As for specifics - I am leaning towards reducing Killing Blow to a 2 pt skill. 33/50% instead of a 3 pt.
- Need to clear up the wording on Veteran Warrior
- Actually finish Ground and pound. The idea was a pin and minor damage.
- Armor shredder is going to be removed since it is not in the Fury tree.

- Personally i like bullrush and whirling strike a lot.


Suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.

Another option I am considering for path of the apothecary is to remove poison from its midst and create a new general tree called "Path of the assassin". It would specialize in high damage, crits, crippling, and poisons. Thoughts?

Sorry my brain's a little rusty at the moment, but here's some ideas I had for revamp stuff.

Ground and Pound
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Attack.
Effect: Hit as normal, make a wound roll using S vs S, if the roll is successful opponent is downed and you may make a standard wound roll. If this second wound is successful the opponent remains downed for an additional round.

new status affect: Downed - When downed the player may not move and all to hit modifiers are halved both for offense and defense. A player may use their turn to stand up to remove the downed condition (no other actions aside from free actions may be taken).

Excuse the awkward descriptions, but I figure ground and pound should have some kind of stunning affect and making this a status condition gives us some more options for attack potions for the alchemy path.

Massive Weapon
Requirements: ???
Type: Passive
Effect: +1 zone to range of two-handed weapons (does not apply to powerful melee attacks), but at 50% Ws and S. Furthermore the attack will not cause the enemy to be engaged.

Pretty self-explanatory, might be better as a powerful melee attack or with multiple ranks that change the bonuses.

Juggernaut's not speaking to me tonight, but we definitely need more passives, perhaps some more anti-armour abilities and abilities that change the opponent's condition? Both this path and the path of fury are really S based, so we may want to include some more S increasing abilities like Fury has, or maybe we should add things that lower an opponent's T? Getting hit with a big ol' axe or sword or whatever has got to be painful and tiring, even if it doesn't make a clear wound, maybe some passive bonuses that make you hurt the target somehow as long as you make the to hit roll?

As for apothecary, I think poison needs its own path, assassin sounds good though I worry how things could start to synergy too well if you go something like scout/marksman/assassin, but I'm theorizing about tree that doesn't even exist yet. Maybe foxus more on the crippling and poisons than on critting or something like that.

Alchemist potion brainstorm:

Lubricant - makes a slippery area where people have to make an Ag roll or end up downed if they move in it.

Flash Powder - bright light, some kind of blinded condition.

Fog/ninja bomb thing - zone that cuts off vision, smoke bombs as potential screens against ranged opponents?

Some kind of coolant mixture - basically the opposite of the alchemist's fire, could be used to put out people on fire. Possible combo-effect with the lubricant?

Warpstone dust - Double the targets miscast and IR chances?

Anti-Warpstone dust - Opposite of above.

maybe keep some poisons around but only as concoctions, so no applying them to weapons?

That's all I've got for the moment. Like I said my brain's not in top gear, I'll post some more after I've though some more.

Also fuck yeah, so excited for this to get back on track.

Glad you're back. I'll try to drum up some interest from the others, but I have low expectations. My thoughts, in no particular order, as usual:

Applying poisons: Do you do it in combat, or out of combat? If in combat, can you switch poisons based on changing circumstances, and if so, is it an action?

Poison Resistance: While it makes sense fluff-wise to have built up a resistance to your own poisons, mechanically I think this fits better in one of the tanky trees. Antidote is a stronger fit for this tree, and having Resistance here as well is kind of redundant.

Oil: This ability already requires a full turn of setup before any possible payoff (hitting them with the oil, and then lighting it) so I would recommend a shorter duration with higher damage. A single enemy rarely survives 6 rounds. 2d6 over 1/2/3, perhaps? It's been a while so I forget how much damage is a lot, my balance sense is gone.

Alchemist's Fire: Similar problem as above, low damage, long duration. Also this is just generally redundant with Oil, and I like Oil better conceptually. There are no Powerful Concoctions (except the combo one) - maybe make this way more damage over a shorter duration, and make it powerful? Less overlap with oil that way.

Juggernaut: Has way too many Powerfuls. Power Strike would be a good choice for a non-Powerful attack if it was less powerful (pun intended lolololol), perhaps if it was just a way to use S instead of WS all the time, without the other benefits? WS would still be valuable unless you wanted to get hit all the damn time, although I suppose that would make ranks 2 and 3 non-existent.

I like Whirling Slash and Bull Rush. You are correct that KB should be 2 ranks rather than 3. As you know, Ground and Pound seems unfinished. Might just want to remove it and use the same concept somewhere else, as Juggernaut already has plenty of attacks.

Suggested, clearer wording of Veteran Warrior: You may use a single Powerful attack (it shouldn't be necessary to specify melee) from the Juggernaut Path that you have already used during this combat.

Is it implied that you are also using that attack with this same action? Or is it supposed to take a turn of wind-up to recharge that move before you use it again? You could word it differently to make it clear that you are both getting the ability back and using it again in one action, or just change it to a Powerful Free Ability rather than a Powerful Ability.

I like the idea of putting Poison somewhere else. Apothecary should have more healy type abilities as its main focus, with Concoctions as a secondary focus. It seems intended as a support tree, so I would recommend Concoctions that have support effects rather than direct damage.

A new Assassin path seems like it would overlap with Fury a lot. I would have to see what you've got for it, of course.

I like the concept of Massive Weapon a lot. Could be 25/50/75% WS and S for ranks, although that might be too good. Maybe just 25/50%? Alternatively, there could be special long two-handers for this concept, rather than an ability. Weapon variety is something we are lacking.

Later I might actually come up with something of my own rather than just criticize everything you guys write, but for the moment I am at work and my brain doesn't function.

Edit: Warpstone Dust appears to have the same effect as... I think it's a Fire magic ability? Which is good, I like it. But it raises a question for me: How do multipliers stack? If a Fire mage uses Warpstone dust, are his miscast and IF chances at 3x? 4x?

* As for multipliers I was avoiding using them specifically for 2 reasons.

A) Confusions with stacking. Ideally if multipiers were involved. Especially multiple multpliers you would add them not multiply. Two abilities or passives that double a stat would triple it. (Norm + Buff 1 + Buff 2 = 3 x Normal damage).

B) Scaling. As we improve our characters since everything is relative double my Ws from 10 to 20 is a 10% increased chance of hitting, but at Ws 50 its a 50% better chance at hitting. This is route i didn't intend to go but its certainly a possibility if the skills seem fair and balanced.

I'll be splitting this into two threads I think to keep it from horribly cluttered. This thread will be the alchemy thread and the new one will be for juggernaut.

*Also once we get finished with all the revamps and ideally get another folk or two back on board I will advertise the site on Podhammer and Warhammeralliances RP forums. They are small-medium size communities so we shouldn't be too overwhelmed.


As for the Alchemy Tree-

Path of the Apothecary

Antidote - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Melee Ability
Effect: Lowers the duration of all poisons affecting the target by 2/5 rounds. For each poison removed this way the target is healed 5/10% of their hp.

Healing Potion - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You or an ally in melee range regains 20/30/40% of their maximum W. This healing is reduced by half for each cumulative use on the same character per adventure.

Warproot Potion - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Ability or Powerful Free Melee Ability
Effect: The target's next spell gains +10/20 to casting and spellpower rolls. In addition the chance for IF is increased by 5/10%. If used as a free ability the chance of miscast increases by 20%.

Oil - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Ability - Concoction
Effect: If the attack hits the target is covered in oil. This gives them a -10/15/20 penalty to hit for the next 3/4/5 rounds. If they are struck for any fire damage they will suffer an additional 3-8 fire damage each round for the duration of the oil.

Alchemist's Fire - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: This attack covers the zone in flames. Each creature in the zone suffers 3-6 fire damage each round. This effect lasts for 1/2/3 rounds.
- Should friendly fire apply here? I think yes but we've avoided that issue in the past -

Troll Acid - 3 Ranks
Requirements - None
Type: Short Ranged Ability - Concoction
Effect: The target suffers -10/15/20T and -0/1/2 armor for the duration for the next 3 rounds.

Pyrotechnician - 2 Ranks
Requirements - Alchemist's Fire Rank 3
Type: Passive
Effect: Increase the minimum fire damage from any of your concoction attacks by 1/2. In addition ignore the first 1/2 points of any fire resistance your opponents have for your concoction attacks.

Strong Arm - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: Your next concoction ability this turn has a range of Long instead of short. You can use this ability 1/2 times per encounter.

Boiling Tar - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: - This concoction targets a zone and lasts for 3/4/5 rounds. Each turn any enemy standing in that zone suffers -10/15/20 Ag and a 1/3/5% reduced dodge chance. If an enemy's agility is reduced to 0 they suffer 1/3/5-10 physical damage at the beginning of each round and are immobilized for the duration of the effect. Any enemy that moves out of the tar moves 1 zone and immediately ends their turn.


- Old -

Unstable Concoction - 3 Ranks
Requirements: 1 rank in 3 concoctions.
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Attack
Effect: Can do an attack that combines the effect of 2 different Concoctions, it also affects 0/1/2 additional opponents in the same zone.


Changed -
Antidote - Reduced to 2 ranks. Made it more specific.
Healing Potion - Reduced healing for cumulative uses on the same character over the course of an adventure.
Oil - Buffed- Now applies a debuff to the target. In addition buffed the damage dealt from burning.
Alchemist Fire - Huge buff. Effects entire zone, higher damage, lower duration per Ferrets suggestion.
Boiling Tar - Focused much more on the slowing effect of tar. In addition greatly buffed the effects once an enemy has stood in the tar long enough. Increased how hindered opponents are mobility wise.
Strong Arm - Overall buffed to Long Range. Made it only usable 2x per fight.


ADDED
Pyrotechnician - Improved damage for AF and Oil. Potentially will be changed to buff other elemental damage as well depending on final concoction list.
Troll Acid- Wanted a purely support skill that would help allies tremendously during large boss battles or dangerous targets.
Warproot Potion - A support/buff role for spellcasters. Made it safe if used slowly, dangerous if used quickly. 20% seems like a lot but adding +20 to the cast roll already reduces the chance of miscasting significantly.


TEMP REMOVED
Unstable Concoction- Need a better idea of all the concoctions first.
Boiling Tar - Needs tweaking for damage.


REMOVED - For obvious reasons we discussed above.
Poisoned Bottle
Poison Resistance
Poison Specialist
Poison's - Weakness, Crippling, Deadly, Slow


Lastly a question - Should concoctions be single use only per fight or infinite use.

Alternatively an alchemist could have a limited number of concoctions total per fight. Each time they used a concoction attack it would draw from this pool. Thoughts?

I think putting a limit on the total number of concoctions a character has is a good idea. It makes you save them for important events and also allows for new loot options to increase that number. We could even add a passive skill that increases the number of concoctions you can carry.

I agree with pretty much all of ferret's criticism.

Lastly, do you think we need more concoctions or more healing effects or passives at this point?

Alrighty how's this for a start.

Concoction - Each alchemist has 3 concoctions per encounter. Each use of a concoction ability reduces this number. When an alchemist runs out of concoctions they may not use any additional concoction abilities.


Pack Rat - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: Gain an additional 1/2 concoctions each encounter.

Rags to Riches - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: At the end of a mission that included 3 or more battles you gain an additional 1/2 gold.

Yes I feel there need to be more in the way of passives.

Limited charges create more paperwork, which I guess isn't necessarily a problem. It sets a certain precedent, though: Are we prepared to have limited charge mechanics for other trees in the future? Having a certain number of charges for abilities, that you can further increase through skills, is usually stronger than our current "everything powerful is once per encounter" that applies to all the other trees. Just something to think about.

@Assassin Tree Idea: We already have a Path of the Scout. Why don't we rename it to Path of the Assassin, take the mobility skills out and replace them with poisonous skills of some kind. Dark Elf/Lizardman trees are also not bad places to put a poison or two since both the Dark Elves and the Lizardmen have kind of a thing for poisons.

I'm a little out of it as far as numerics go at the time being, I'll have to re-acquire my feel for things before I start input there. But it's a start.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! I felt we did a really good job revamping Path of the Scout, it would be really sad to see such a unique tree get ripped apart to make another DPS-centric tree (Juggernaut, Fury, etc...)

My intent with Path of the Assassin was to make it similar to the original Path of Khaine. A few potential instant death attacks, crippling strikes, and poisons. I personally like the mobility aspect of the Path of the Scout and don't want like the idea of poisons in it. I feel if someone now really wants an assassin character (Let's be honest most of us do) they would have the option of using Path of the Assassin, Path of the Scout, and Path of Fury/Grace. Depending on if they prefer 2W slaughter or 1H dodgyness. It would target all three aspects of the assassin concept. Dirty Fighting, Weapon Finesse, and Stealth/Mobility.


As for potions & concoctions I am leaning more towards keeping them with the standard descriptors and setting them all to Powerful but adding the following ability.

Resupply - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: 1/2/3 of your concoction attacks that you have used this encounter you may use again.

This would effectively add a refill mechanic to the alchemist should things go horrible and they find themselves out of concoctions. How do we feel about the concoction changes? Or the new concoctions? I am planning on adding 1 or 2 more (mainly support/debuff not damage) then calling it good on that front. New passives or healing/support skills would be cool.

Potentially
Blue Frost -
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction
Effect: This concoction deals 1/2/3 frost damage to all units in the zone. Roll Wp vs T against the initial target of the ability. If you succeed the target is frozen in the ice and loses their next action.


Melee Alchemist - 3 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: You can use your concoctions in melee range at a -25/15/5 penalty.

Oh and since I didn't state it above Concoctions will require a hit roll. They will not be instant win/nonrolling abilities. Most will not require a wound roll. Hitting is good enough when dealing with alchemists fire =D.

How do we feel about stats being tied to concoctions? I'm not sure Wp is entirely appropiate but I hesitate to add another stat that most people will simply dump.

Also welcome back Forte. =)

Love everything in Pony's post except why Wp instead of Bs? Really though those two are the biggest potential dump stats, so as long as we go with one or the other I'll be happy.

The thought was, and you can judge if its any good, was that Bs would be for the hit roll and represent his accuracy while Wp would represent the alchemist's alchemical ability and potency of his creations which would more directly affect the actual effects of the attack.

Ah that makes sense, I was confused.

Soothing Salve - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Melee Concoction
Effect: On your target's turn, they heal 10/10/15% of their max wounds, for the next 2/3/3 turns. (A much smaller, slower heal, but not affected by the diminishing returns of the big heal.)

Bandages - 3 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: Up to 1/2/3 allies (including the alchemist) who are in your zone at the beginning of your turn heal 2W.

Reviving Salts - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Concoction
Effect: One ally who is unconscious in your zone gets back up at 10/20/30% of their max Wounds.


Thoughts on requirements?

I like em. Gonna make a few small tweaks.

Bandages is REALLY REALLY good. I want to limit it to an ally. It seems too good for just yourself. 2 point for effectively fast heal 2 seems high. With this you would still be an immense asset to your group

Bandages - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: One ally in your zone at the beginning of your turn regains 1/2W.

Soothing Salve - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Melee Concoction
Effect: On your target's turn, they heal 1 W for every 10 points of Wp you possess, for the next 2/3/4 turns. Each time in an encounter this ability is used on the same target the duration is reduced by 1 turn.

Reviving Salts - 2 Ranks
Type: Epic Melee Ability
Effect: One ally who is unconscious in your zone gets back up at 10/25% of their max Wounds.

Want to add another support ability to the mix.

Bursting Stones - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction
Effect: The bursting stones disorient and blind foes they strike. Your opponent can make basic actions for the next 1 round. Make an opposed Wp check. If you succeed the foe cannot use actions other than basic attacks for the next 2/3 rounds instead.


As for requirements lets decide that when the list is closer to finalized but i imagine one or two of the healing abilities will be required for the revive ability.

Current list for consolidations sake-



As for the Alchemy Tree-

Path of the Apothecary

Oil - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Ability - Concoction
Effect: If the attack hits the target is covered in oil. This gives them a -10/15/20 penalty to hit for the next 3/4/5 rounds. If they are struck for any fire damage they will suffer an additional 3-8 fire damage each round for the duration of the oil.

Alchemist's Fire - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: This attack covers the zone in flames. Each creature in the zone suffers 3-6 fire damage each round. This effect lasts for 1/2/3 rounds.
- Should friendly fire apply here? I think yes but we've avoided that issue in the past -

Troll Acid - 3 Ranks
Requirements - None
Type: Short Ranged Ability - Concoction
Effect: The target suffers -10/15/20T and -0/1/2 armor for the duration for the next 3 rounds.

Pyrotechnician - 2 Ranks
Requirements - Alchemist's Fire Rank 3
Type: Passive
Effect: Increase the minimum fire damage from any of your concoction attacks by 1/2. In addition ignore the first 1/2 points of any fire resistance your opponents have for your concoction attacks.

Strong Arm - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: Your next concoction ability this turn has a range of Long instead of short. You can use this ability 1/2 times per encounter.

Boiling Tar - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack - Concoction
Effect: - This concoction targets a zone and lasts for 3/4/5 rounds. Each turn any enemy standing in that zone suffers -10/15/20 Ag and a 1/3/5% reduced dodge chance. If an enemy's agility is reduced to 0 they suffer 1/3/5-10 physical damage at the beginning of each round and are immobilized for the duration of the effect. Any enemy that moves out of the tar moves 1 zone and immediately ends their turn.

Resupply - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: 1/2/3 of your concoction attacks that you have used this encounter you may use again.

Not super happy w/this one atm. Suggestions appreciated
Blue Frost -
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction
Effect: This concoction deals 1/2/3 frost damage to all units in the zone. Roll Wp vs T against the initial target of the ability. If you succeed the target is frozen in the ice and loses their next action.

Bursting Stones - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction
Effect: The bursting stones disorient and blind foes they strike. Your opponent can make basic actions for the next 1 round. Make an opposed Wp check. If you succeed the foe cannot use actions other than basic attacks for the next 2/3 rounds instead.

Melee Alchemist - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: You can use your concoctions in melee range at a -25/10 penalty. Still use Bs for the hit.

Bandages - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: One ally in your zone at the beginning of your turn regains 1/2W.

Soothing Salve - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Melee Concoction
Effect: On your target's turn, they heal 1 W for every 10 points of Wp you possess, for the next 2/3/4 turns. Each time in an encounter this ability is used on the same target the duration is reduced by 1 turn.

Reviving Salts - 2 Ranks
Type: Epic Melee Ability
Effect: One ally who is unconscious in your zone gets back up at 10/25% of their max Wounds.

Antidote - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Melee Ability
Effect: Lowers the duration of all poisons affecting the target by 2/5 rounds. For each poison removed this way the target is healed 5/10% of their hp.

Healing Potion - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You or an ally in melee range regains 20/30/40% of their maximum W. This healing is reduced by half for each cumulative use on the same character per adventure.

Warproot Potion - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Melee Ability or Powerful Free Melee Ability
Effect: The target's next spell gains +10/20 to casting and spellpower rolls. In addition the chance for IF is increased by 5/10%. If used as a free ability the chance of miscast increases by 20%.


In summary what this leaves us with.
6 Tossed items- 3 damage potential - Fire, Tar, and Oil, 3 support- Acid, Shatterstone, and Ice.

3 Healing Abilities - Healing Pot - Large heal, Soothing- Smaller HoT, Revive,

2 Support Abilities - Antidote + Warproot Potion.


Antidote- 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
At the beginning of your turn any reduce the duration of any poison effect on yourself or allies in your zone by 1/2 rounds.

I am considering turning antidote into a passive above. If so I would like one more Support ability that buffs allies without being a heal. Thoughts on the new tree? Try to put your balance hats and go to town!

40pts total - We need more passives folks!

I am also considering removing the Ice ability completely. Losing a turn seems incredibly dickish and with the new PvP stuff it is a mechanic I do not want to encourage.

Some ideas I just came up with

Chirurgeon - 1 Ranks
Requirements - Bandages (+Ointments?)
Type: Passive
Effect: Bandages may now heal allies from unconsciousness.

ex. - Quetzl has -5W, Teddy is a chirurgeon who started the round in the same zone as him. Quetzl now has -3W. if Quetzl is brought above 0 W, then he may take actions again.
Language is a bit off at the moment. Is it too overpowered?

Ointments - 2 Ranks
Requirements - Bandages
Type: Passive
Effect: Bandages may now effect 1/2 more allies in your zone.

Pretty self-explanatory. I'll come back with some offensive passives as soon as I think of any.

Thanks for posting on this tree, it seems to have fallen from observing eyes as of late. As for your post Ointment sounds good but I think I'll limit it to 1 point for 1 additional ally. Consider it added.

I am very wary of adding the revive mechanic, especially as a passive. While the flavor is good and it might be balanced reviving is an issue i treading softly on, a lot of rezzing doesnt really fit the flavor of the world and I worry about its effects in game.

I would like to spend a little time focusing on this tree.

There are two issues in particular with this tree I'd like to discuss as well as anything else anyone would like to bring up. The first being scalability. How best to make these attacks and skills scale properly? All of the other trees tend to scale fairly well but this one is a bit weak in that department.

The second is this path really needs an Epic, I've been considering making the Reviving Salts much better and Epic but that seems kind of lame. I would love to hear ideas on epics. This can be anything from purely mechanical cool ideas, to awesome fluff ideas, or even as vague and hypothetical as it should be healing or it should be concoction based.

Here is another healing ability I just thought of

Emergency Improvised Surgery - 3 Ranks
Requirements: Something
Type: Powerful Melee Ability
Effect: You give yourself or an ally DR 1 + 1 for every 25/20/15 points of Wp you possess for the next 3 rounds. Double this DR if the target is wounded, and triple it if the target is Dying.

I've been thinking about blue frost for a while, why don't we just limit it so that rather than losing your next action the target is either immobilized (as in your new shadow tree) or it simply can't perform anything other than a basic action the next turn (i.e. attack, charge, move, and maybe dash, no powerful abilities).

I think you're right. The new immobilized keyword has a new home with this ability. I'll make some adjustments and toss the tree up again.

Let's try this again.

Path of the Apothecary

Concoction (Stat) – Concoctions use BS for the hit roll and the stat in () for wound roll.
Oil - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Ability – Concoction (AG)
Effect: If the attack hits the target is covered in oil. This gives them a -10/15/20 penalty to hit for the next 2 + 1/ for every 30/20/10 Wp rounds. If they are struck for any fire damage they will suffer an additional 3-6 fire damage each round for the duration of the oil and this effect ends immediately.

Alchemist's Fire - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack – Concoction (T)
Effect: This attack hits all the foes in one zone. Each creature in the zone suffers 1-5 + 1 per 20/15/10 WP.

Troll Acid - 3 Ranks
Requirements - None
Type: Short Ranged Ability – Concoction (T)
Effect: The target suffers – 10/15/20 T and -1 armor per 25/20/15 WP, for the duration for the next 3 rounds.

Pyrotechnician - 2 Ranks
Requirements - Alchemist's Fire Rank 3
Type: Passive
Effect: Increase the minimum fire damage from any of your concoction attacks by 1/2. In addition ignore the first 1/2 points of any fire resistance your opponents have for your concoction attacks.

Strong Arm - Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Ability
Effect: Your next concoction ability this turn has a range of Long instead of short.

Boiling Tar - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack – Concoction (AG)
Effect: - This concoction targets a zone and lasts for 3/4/5 rounds. Each turn any enemy standing in that zone suffers -10/15/20 Ag and a 1/3/5% reduced dodge chance. If an enemy's agility is reduced to 0 they suffer 1/3/5-10 physical damage at the beginning of each round and are immobilized for the duration of the effect. Any enemy that moves out of the tar moves 1 zone and immediately ends their turn.

Resupply - 2 Ranks
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: 1/2 of your concoction attacks that you have used this encounter may be used again.

Blue Frost – 3 Rounds
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction (S)
Effect: This concoction deals 1 frost damage per 25/20/15WP to all units in the zone. In addition each unit affected is immobilized for 1/2/3 rounds.

Bursting Stones - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction (WP)
Effect: The bursting stones disorient and blind foes they strike. Your opponent can make basic actions for the next 1 round. Make an opposed Wp check. If you succeed the foe cannot use actions other than basic attacks for the next 2/3 rounds instead.

Bandages - 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: One ally in your zone at the beginning of your turn regains 1/2W.

Soothing Salve - 3 Ranks
Type: Powerful Melee Concoction
Effect: On your target's turn, they heal 1 W for every 10 points of Wp you possess, for the next 2/3/4 turns. Each time in an encounter this ability is used on the same target the duration is reduced by 1 turn.

Reviving Salts - 2 Ranks
Type: Epic Melee Ability
Effect: One ally who is unconscious in your zone gets back up at 10/25% of their max Wounds.

Antidote- 2 Ranks
Type: Passive
At the beginning of your turn any reduce the duration of any poison effect on yourself or allies in your zone by 1/2 rounds.

Healing Potion - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Ability
Effect: You or an ally in melee range regains 10/20/30 (+1 per 10 WP) % of their maximum W. This healing is reduced by half for each cumulative use on the same character per adventure.

Warproot Potion - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Free Melee Ability
Effect: The target's next spell gains +10/20 to casting and spellpower rolls. In addition the target has 20/10% increased miscast chance.

Troll Acid - 3 Ranks
Requirements - None
Type: Short Ranged Ability – Concoction (T)
Effect: The target suffers – 10/15/20 T and -1 armor per 25/20/15 WP, for the duration for the next 3 rounds.


Are both effects increased by WP, or is just the armor reduction? I ask because losing 40 T because somebody has 30 WP makes me worry.

Boiling Tar - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Attack – Concoction (AG)
Effect: - This concoction targets a zone and lasts for 3/4/5 rounds. Each turn any enemy standing in that zone suffers -10/15/20 Ag and a 1/3/5% reduced dodge chance. If an enemy's agility is reduced to 0 they suffer 1/3/5-10 physical damage at the beginning of each round and are immobilized for the duration of the effect. Any enemy that moves out of the tar moves 1 zone and immediately ends their turn.

How do the opposed rolls work here? You say that it's against AG, but it still affects them if they are in the zone. Do you make an AG roll every turn they're in the stuff?

Bursting Stones - 2 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Powerful Short Ranged Concoction (WP)
Effect: The bursting stones disorient and blind foes they strike. Your opponent can make basic actions for the next 1 round. Make an opposed Wp check. If you succeed the foe cannot use actions other than basic attacks for the next 2/3 rounds instead.

This one's a bit engrish. So they can make basic actions the first turn, and then you make a WP check and if they fail they can only attack for the next 2/3 rounds? Can they not move the second or third round?

Aside from these things and a few minor language errors it all looks pretty good to me.