Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

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Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:39 am

So there are a number of changes to spells that are being implemented. I'll be honest these changes are not an ideal solution and still present some problems. However feedback is as always appreciated, and in this case heavily needed.

There were several issues I wanted to address. The first being IF and miscasting. I feel solid about miscasts. Irresistible force of the other hand I felt was a bit lacking mechanically and in flavor. So there will be a little changes to each.

The first is that miscasts and IFs will have a gradual scaling curve. Every 10 points you succeed or fail your cast by grants you a 5% IF or miscast chance to a maximum of 40% (Before additional modifiers). Miscasts are resolved the same way using the old miscast chart. Irresistible Force now gives you a guaranteed 100 on your spellpower roll. This is significant due to changes in spellpower.

Casting Rolls will remain the same except for the IF and Miscast chance detailed above.

Spellpower rolls resolve differently depending on the type of spell. There are now 4 types of spells. Personal, Summon, Targeted, and Area of Effect. Personal and Area of Effect spells will be detailed in their keywords. If a spell lacks any of those keywords it is assumed to be a targeted spell. We'll go over Targeted and Area of Effect (AoE) spells first.

Targeted - Will resolve identically to how they were before. The only difference is now bonus damage or effect is not determined by your flat Wp. Instead it is dependent on your spellpower roll. Lets look at the new Red Fire for an example.

Red Fire - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Medium Ranged Projectile
Spell Level: 1
Effect: Deals 2-5/3-8/4-11 fire damage. This spell deals an additional 1 damage for every 20/15/10 points you succeed your spell power roll by.

If I as a Wp 30 chaos mage cast this on a peasant with Wp 10 the roll might resolve something like this.

40+10-30 = 20 < 62

I rolled a 62 awesome! I deal the usual spell damage of 4-11 because I succeeded in my check (in this case I rolled an 7). But I deal a bonus of 4 damage because my spellpower roll itself was very high ((62-20)/10). I deal a total of 11 damage to the goblin.

If I had cast this spell with Irresistible Force I would instead cast use the following.

40+10-30 = 20 < 100

I would deal 8 bonus damage instead of 4 for a total of 15 damage (7 original + 8 bonus) for casting such a potent spell.

Area of Effect or AoE spells
AoE spells resolve much the same way. You make a single spellpower and damage roll but line the defenders up to check results and compute bonus damage. This will make more sense with an example. Let us say I am casting Red Fireball shown below on a goblin shaman and his orc and goblin bodyguards.

Red FireBALL - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Medium Ranged Projectile - AoE
Spell Level: 1
Effect: Deals 2-5/3-8/4-11 fire damage to all targets in the zone. This spell deals an additional 1 damage for every 20/15/10 points you succeed your spell power roll by.

They have the following Wp
Shaman 35
Orc 15
Goblin 5

I would add 40 - my Wp to all their Wps and compare the roll. (remember I have 30 Wp for this example)
Shaman 45 (35+ 40-30)
Orc 25
Goblin 15

Now I rolled a 32 on my spellpower check. I would just compare that result to all the enemies. I rolled a 10 for my damage.
S 45< 32 * 0 damage to the shaman (Spell Power roll wasn't high enough)
O 25< 32 * 10 damage dealt to orc (10 + 0 bonus)
G 15<32 * 11 damage dealt to goblin (10 + 1 bonus)




Personal (and summon spells)
note- Summon Spells are now a subset of Personal spells. They are treated exactly the same way for spellpower rolls.

Personal Spells are unopposed rolls you are not directly affecting a resistant or hostile target. But magic is still fickle and requires a spellpower roll. Use the following

Your spellpower total is
Wp + d100 + misc modifiers.

If the roll on the 100 sided die is less than (15+5*Spell level) the spell fails to gather enough strength to function. If the d100 roll is any higher than this however the spell goes off using the spellpower total shown above.

Ex-
I am casting a spell summon skeleton.

Summon Skeleton - 3 Ranks
Requirements: None
Type: Short Ranged Personal Spell - Summon
Spell Level: 1
Effect: Summons a skeleton with the following stats. Ws 10, Bs 10, S 10, T 10, Ag 10, Wp 10, W 5. In addition for every 20/15/10 points in your spellcasting roll the skeleton gains an additional Ws and S.

Now lets do a spellpower roll. I again have 30 Wp and make the following roll.
Wp + d100 + misc
30 + 62 + 0 = 92

So I would successfully cast the summon with a value of 92. This would increase the skeletons Ws and S by 9 points!

If I cast it with IF it would increase the skeletons Ws and S by a whopping 13 points! (30+100=130)

However what would happen if I rolled a 17 on my die.
Wp + d100 + misc
30 + 17 +0 = 47

The spell would fail because as a level 1 spell it fails if the die roll comes up below 20 (15+ 5 * Spell Level 1) regardless of my Wp or Misc modifiers.

I wrote this up quick because my initial longer post got killed by firefox. I would appreciate feedback on these ideas. I will make a larger keylist of spell terms but these are the changes and ideas for the fundamentals of casting.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:34 am

Epic Spells-

I should take this time to address Epic spells.

Level 6 spells have been replaced with Epic spells.

Epic spells will be considered level 5 for the purposes of casting and spellpower rolls. Due to the high risk nature of spellcasting, if a caster attempts to cast an Epic Spell and fails this does not use up that spell. They may try to cast it again in subsequent rounds. If the casting roll is successful regardless of the spellpower roll the spell is used up.
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Fire Tree - Version Alpha

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:41 am

Fire Tree- This is the first bit of the Fire Tree. I was unhappy with the spells of level 4,5 and 6 so have removed them for the time being. This is an alpha version, I'll have one up soon for Tzeetch as well. Thoughts on how the new spells are looking?


    Fireball- 3 Ranks - Level 1 Spell
    Requirements: None
    Type: Medium ranged projectile
    Spell Level: 1
    Effect: 2-5/4-7/6-9 damage. For every 20/15/10 points you exceed the spellpower roll by, increase the damage by 1.

    Longbolt - 1 Rank
    Requirements: Fireball 1
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Increase your fireball to long range. It deals half base damage (Bonus damage is still calculated normally) at long range.

    Sword of Rhun- 3 Ranks - Spell Level 2
    Requirements: None
    Type: Personal Spell - Sustained
    Spell Level: 2
    Effect: You summon a sword made of pure fire. It is treated as a balanced hand weapon that deals 3-6 physical damage and 3-7/4-9/5-10 of fire damage. You gain an additional 5 S for every 50/40/30 points of your spellpower roll when making attacks with this blade.

    Rhun's Chosen- 2 Ranks
    Requirements: Sword of Rhun, Ignite
    Type: Passive
    Effect: The chance your Sword of Rhun triggers Ignite with its fire damage increases by 10/20%. In addition to the Strength increase from Sword of Rhun it also increases your WS by 5 per 50/30 points of your spellpower roll.

    Explosion- 3 Ranks - Spell Level 3
    Requirements: Sword of Rhun -or- Fireball
    Type: Short Ranged spell. - Area of Effect
    Spell Power: Wp
    Effect: The bright wizard creates a large explosion in the targeted zone. All targets in the zone suffer 6-8/11/14 fire damage plus 1 for every 30/25/20 points you exceed your spellpower roll by.

    Eye of the Explosion - 1 Rank
    Requirements: Explosion
    Type: Passive
    Effect: You may now cast Explosion in your current zone even if you are engaged. If you cast Explosion this way you take no damage from the attack.

    Cage of Flames - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: Two Other Spells
    Type: Medium Ranged Spell - Sustainable
    Spell Level: 4
    Effect: This spell traps the target in a cage of fire. They take a 2-6 + 1 for every 40/30/20 points you exceed your spellpower roll by each round they are in the cage. Any hit or casting rolls take a -10/15/20 penalty in the cage. If the target attempts to leave the cage by switching zones they suffer 3-10/7-12/11-14 +1 fire damage for every 20/15/10 points you exceeded your spellpower roll by.

    Burnt Offering- 1 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: The first time you miscast in an encounter you take an automatic 1 damage per spell level to roll twice on the miscast table and choose the lower result.

    Fuel the Flames - 2 ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Increase your chance to cast with IF by 5/10% and increase your chance of miscasting by 3/5%.

    Winds of Fire - 1 rank
    Requirements: None
    Type: Epic Ability
    Effect: You summon the volatile Winds of Fire. Each time you or an allied wizard successfully casts a spell they gain a 5% increased chance of casting with IF.

    Super Nova - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: Out with a Bang 2, Overload 2
    Type: Powerful Free Ability
    Effect: Your chance to cast spells with Irresistible Force increases by 5/10% and your casting roll and spellpower rolls increase by 5/10 (max of 5 stacks). You lose 15% of your max W each turn.

    Ignite- 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Anytime you deal fire damage to a foe they have a 5/10% chance to catch fire, dealing 1 fire damage a round for the duration of the encounter. This effect can stack.

    Heart of Fire - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: You gain Fire Resistance 1/2. Every time you miscast while casting a spell from the Lore of Fire you increase your chance of casting Fire spells with Irresistible Force by 5/10% for the duration of the encounter.

    Overload- 2 ranks
    Requirements: Ignite 2
    Type: Powerful Free Ability
    Effect: Using this ability guarantees any non-Epic spell you cast is cast with Irresistible Force. However you also suffer the effects of a miscast immediately after resolving the spells effect. Roll 1/2 times on the miscast chart and select the lowest result.



Last edited by FlyingPinkPony on Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:46 pm; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:21 am

The "Sustained" keyword needs a description. And as you are probably already aware, many of the prereqs in Fire refer to spells which do not currently exist. Also, friendly fire on AoEs? I vote yes. There could always be skills to mitigate your own FF, too.

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  deadlychair on Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:34 am

I vote yes for FF as well. Should Fuel the Flames and Burnt Offering be may abilities, or always activate regardless of your own desires?

Other changes look nice and make IF something kind of cool.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:53 am

Nope both Fuel the Flames and Burst Offering are meant to be always on. Fire is powerful but dangerous, it is an intentional double edged sword. As for FF I agree it should exist. I'll be more generous to the larger AoE spells since they are difficult to maneuver without hitting allies but yeah unless the ability says otherwise consider FF on. But let's be fair this fire isn't friendly.


As for spell keywords here is what I'm thinking

Sustained - The spell lasts until you choose to cast another spell or wish to end it.
Projectile - These spells can be dodged and other abilities will target spells with this keyword.

I also added a few more thingies like Cage of Fire.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:27 am

Lore of Tzeentch. Nothing new yet just the ones I felt totally 100% cool with. More will be added.


    Red Fire - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Medium Ranged Projectile
    Spell Level: 1
    Effect: Deals 2-5/3-8/4-11 fire damage. This spell deals an additional 1 damage for every 20/15/10 points you succeed your spell power roll by.

    Red Blade - 2 ranks
    Req: Red Fire
    Type: Powerful melee attack
    Effect: If this attack hits you can immediately cast Red Fire rank 1/2 on the target. The casting roll automatically succeeds.

    Mantle of Orange Flame - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Personal Sustained Spell
    Spell Level: 2
    Effect: You gain DR 1 for every 20/15/10 points you roll on your spellpower check. In addition you gain a 3/6/10% ward save while the spell is active.

    SpellShield - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: Mantle of Orange Flame 1
    Type: Passive
    Effect: While Mantle of Orange Fire is active you gain Magic Resistance 10/20 and any single target spell that fails its spellpower roll against you has a 25/50% chance of being reflected onto the caster. It automatically affects the caster, but receives no additional spellpower bonuses.

    Baleful Transformation - 3 Ranks - Spell Level 3
    Requirements: 1 Tzeentch Spell
    Type: Short Ranged Spell
    Spell Level: 3
    Effect: Target lowers 1/2/3 random stats (excluding W) by 20 plus an additional 5 for every 20 points you exceed your spellpower roll by for the next 5 rounds. If a target is more than once by this spell the new version overrides the old.

    Siphoned Transformation - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: Baleful Transformation
    Type: Passive
    Effect: When you successfully affect an opponent with Baleful Transformation, you gain +5/10 to the stats that are drained from your foe for the duration of the spell.

    Blue Fire - 3 Rank
    Requirements: Any other spell.
    Type: Short Ranged Projectile
    Spell Level: 4
    Effect: Deals 1-4/8/12 damage plus an additional 1 for every 30/25/20 points you succeed the spellpower roll by. This spell deals an additional 1/2/3 damage for every horror currently under your control. If this spell slays the target you immediately summon a pink horror.

    Tzeentch's Fire Storm - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: 2 Spells max rank
    Type: Long Range - Area of Effect
    Spell Level: 5
    Effect: Fire Storm deals 3-5/5-7/7-9 + 1 fire damage for every 30/25/20 points you succeed your spellpower roll by to all targets in the targeted zone. Targets in adjacent zones do not suffer bonus damage but still suffer the base fire damage assuming the spellpower roll is high enough.

    Denial of Fate - 1 rank
    Type: Powerful Free Ability
    Effect: For this turn only, instead of taking a casting penalty for each wound you have taken, gain that amount as a casting and spell power bonus.

    Spell Strip - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Anytime an enemy caster miscasts while casting a spell they can no longer cast that spell for the duration of the encounter. At Rank 2, you can cast the spell as though you knew it at the same rank the target possessed.

    Warrior Wizard - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Every time you successfully cause damage with a melee attack you gain +0/10 to casting and spellpower rolls until the end of your next turn. You may also cast ranged spells at a target currently engaging you next turn.

    Winds of Change - 1 Rank
    Requirements: Lots including Gaze of Tzeentch
    Type: Epic Ability
    Effect: All enemy casters gain an increased 5% miscast chance whenever they attempt to cast a spell for the duration of the encounter.

    Gaze of Tzeentch - 1 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: All enemy casters have a 5% increased miscast chance.



Last edited by FlyingPinkPony on Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:17 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:08 pm

High Magic

A brief taste to whet your appetite.

    - 23 points
    Walk Between Worlds - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Ranged Personal Spell
    Spell Level: 1
    Effect: You turn ethereal and move up to 1/2/3 zones. You gain a 20/30/40% ward save + 1% for every 20/10/5 points you rolled on your spellpower check until the end of your turn. This ward save is halved against magic spells and weapons.

    Shield of Saphery - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Sustained Personal Spell
    Spell Level: 2
    Effect: You and all allies in your zone or adjacent zones gain +0/1/2 armor points and a 10 + 1% ward save for every 40/30/20 points you get on your spellpower check.

    Fury of Khaine - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: 1 Other Spell
    Type: Medium Ranged Projectile
    Spell Level: 3
    Effect: This spell deals 3-6/4-8/5-10 fire damage + 1 for every 20/15/10 points you succeed your spellpower roll by. After this damage is calculated if the target is Wounded or Dying they suffer an additional 3-6/4-8/5-10 fire damage.

    Dispel Magic - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: One other spell
    Type: Medium Ranged Spell
    Spell Level: 4
    Effect: You gain magic resistance 20 and all enemy casters in the targeted zone suffer -20 + 1 for every 15/10/5 points you scored on your spellcasting roll to all casting rolls for the next 1/2/3 rounds. All currently sustained spells or spell effects in targeted zone or cast by wizards in targeted zone are immediately ended.

    SpellSteal - 1 Rank
    Requirements: Dispel Magic
    Type: Passive
    Effect: At the beginning of your next turn all beneficial effects you stripped from

    Flames of the Phoenix - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: Two Other Spells
    Type: Medium Ranged Sustained Spell - AoE
    Spell Level: 5
    Effect: Flames of the Phoniex deals 1-4/2-6/3-8 + 1 fire damage for every 30/25/20 points you succeed your spellpower roll by to all targets in the targeted zone every turn this effect is maintained. Each round this effect is maintained it deals an additional 1 + 1 fire damage for every 50/40/30 points you rolled on your spellpower roll.

    Roar of Caledor - This is gonna need a lot of tweaking.
    Requirements: Lots
    Type: Medium Ranged Spell / Summon Spell - AoE
    Spell Level: Epic
    Effect: This spell summons a dragon under the casters control. The dragon has the following statistics. When the dragon arrive. When the dragon arrives it breathes fire on the targeted zone. Treat this as the dragons firebreath attack. The dragon has attacks and statistics listed below. If you roll under 40 on the d100 roll for your spellpower check the dragon has a 1 + 1 per 10 points you failed by turn delay before arriving. The dragon lands in the targeted zone and acts on your next turn along with you. The dragon lasts until the encounter or until you are slain.

    Ws Bs S T Ag Wp W Special
    25 15 30 25 15 40 25 MR 20, Large Target
    (Ranged attacks +20 to hit)
    Scaly Hide - 4 armor

    The dragon gains + 5 Ws, S, T, and Wp for every 20 points you roll on your spellpower check. It gains +5 Bs, Ag, and W for every 30 points you roll on your spellpower check.

      The dragon possesses the following abilities.
      Fly - Powerful Ability - The dragon may move up to 3 zones. Any enemies in the zone it lands in are treated as engaged.

      Large Target - The dragon ignores all normal rules for being engaged except from other large targets.

      Roar - Powerful Ability - All enemies on the battlefield are rattled suffering -10 to all rolls and all allies are inspired gaining +10 to all rolls for 2 rounds.

      Firebreath - Medium Ranged Attack - Use BS to hit. Attacks all targets in the zone for 4-15 + 1 fire damage for every 10 points of strength it possesses.

      Claws & Teeth - The dragon can make 3 attacks in melee, 2 claws and 1 bite. Each claw attack deals 2-10 damage and has a -10 to hit and wound. The bite attack deals 6-12 damage with no penalty. These attacks do not need to target the same enemy but must be assigned before rolls and damage are made.



    Silver Flames of Saphery- 2 Ranks
    Requirements: Flames of the Phoniex
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Your allies take 66/33% damage from Flames of the Phoniex.

    Balanced Casting - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: When casting any spell from High Magic reduce the chance of miscasting any spell by 3/5% (to a minimum of 5%).

    Curse of Blade Attraction - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: When you target an enemy with a High Magic spell anyone attacking that target in melee gains +5/10 to hit.

    Counterspell - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Whenever a foe fails a spellpower check against you they have a 25/50% chance of being unable to cast that spell again for the duration of the encounter.



Last edited by FlyingPinkPony on Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:03 am; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:37 am

I would lower the base ward save of Walk Between Worlds and bump the rate at which it scales. I would do 10/20/30% and 2% per 20/10/5.

Shield of Saphery is really, really, really good. By comparison, it generates as much or more DR than Orange Fire for SP results up to 60, up to 2 DR less at SP 100, except this DR applies to all allies within a zone of you, and it all comes back every turn. It is otherwise identical (lvl 2, same ward, etc).

Fury of Khaine seems really strong, but I guess it is level 3, so it should be a fair amount of damage.

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:44 am

Noted. I forgot to look at Orange Fire for comparison. So to make it up to you cause I am such a nice guy I suggest the following additions to Tzeentch lore. I'm gonna change Shield of Saphery from DR to a small armor buff and relook at ward save.

Orange Blade - 1 Rank
Requirements: Orange Fire
Type: Powerful Melee Attack - Requires Orange Fire be active.
Effect: This attack removes the effects of Orange Fire. You gain a bonus to hit and wound equal to ward save granted by Orange Fire as well as bonus damage on the melee attack equal to the current DR. This attack also ignores opponents DR.

Also epic spell idea. I'm sure it'll need some tweaking and all but here goes.


Eye of Change - 1 Rank
Requirements: A lot.
Type: Epic Spell (Treat as level 6 for purposes of casting. Cannot fail spellpower roll, see description.)
Spell Level: Epic
Effect: The great eye of Tzeentch watches over the battlefield warping and twisting everything in its path. At the beginning of each players turn roll on the table below. The caster rolls twice on this table taking the higher value, while enemies roll twice and select the lower value. Allies roll once. These effects last until the end of encounter. The spell remains active 1 round for every 30 points you scored on your spellpower roll. If you rolled less than 10 on your spellpower check Tzeench does not favor you. You are slain and replaced with a pink horror under your control. Each round this is active the miscast and IF chance for all spellcasters increases by 10%.

1 - Something Horrible Turning you into a spawn over time -
2 - Deadly Mutation - The target loses 20% of its maximum W. If the target is slain by this ability it becomes a pink horror under control of the caster. Ward saves can prevent this damage.
3 - Horrors of the Warp - The target loses their action.
4 - Daemon's From Within - The target suffers 1 damage for every 20 points you rolled on your spellpower check as daemon try to claw their way out of the target's body. If this spell slays the target they become a blue horror under your control.
5 - Harmful Mutation - The target suffers -10 to a random stat (excluding W).
6 - No effect - The target suffers no ill effects this turn.
7 - Helpful Mutation - target gains +10 to a random stat (excluding W).
8 - Regeneration - The target heals 10% of their maximum W.
9 - Surge of Power - The target gain +20 on hit, wound, casting, and spellpower rolls this turn.
10 - Daemonic Ascension - The character is becoming a daemon prince. Each time this effect is rolled it has increasing effects. The first time this is rolled they gain a 10% ward save. The second time this rolled they gain +5 to all attributes. The third time the target is granted daemonic raven wings which allow them to shift 1 zone for free at the beginning of their turn and regenerate 10% of their maximum health each turn.


Also another passive.

Indignant Rage - 2 ranks
Type: Passive
Effect: Every time you fail a spell power roll you gain +5/10 to hit and wound until the end of your next turn.


Last edited by FlyingPinkPony on Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:58 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:46 pm

Added Epic and others to High Elf Lore. The spell list is complete for the time being. I'm sure the epic in particular will need tweaking. SoS also got overhauled for balance, because ferret was right it was totally OP. Thoughts and comments would be appreciated.
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Tzeentch

Post  DemonicFerret on Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:50 am

Orange Blade - 1 Rank
Requirements: Orange Fire
Type: Powerful Melee Attack - Requires Orange Fire be active.
Effect: This attack removes the effects of Orange Fire. You gain a bonus to hit and wound equal to ward save granted by Orange Fire as well as bonus damage on the melee attack equal to the current DR. This attack ignores armor and DR.

I feel like this makes Orange Blade more interesting, more than just "hit slightly better, deal slightly more damage" which bores me.

Eye of Change: You say it can't fail the casting roll, but the "Tzeentch does not favor you" condition only references the SP roll. Does the cast roll have any affect on this spell? It should do something. Maybe make duration conditional on the casting roll, and have the effect based on your SP? Maybe "for every 40 points you roll on your SP check, you and your allies get +1 on table rolls and enemies get -1"?

Should the -10 and +10 to a random stat effects have a duration? Also, the "no effect" effect bores me. Move everything below it up one spot and add a new lowest result to the tune of "whoever rolled this result immediately suffers a random miscast." This spell should generate lots of strange and unusual effects, and the only place we have those is in the miscast table.

Also, considering that this spell can screw you over pretty good even if you cast it successfully, I think the 10% instant death chance is a little harsh. Something bad should happen, sure, but this spell is not so overwhelmingly awesome that it should cause you to drop dead.

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:17 am

Curse of Blade Attraction needs a duration. Dispel Magic should also end any ongoing spell effects in the zone, even ones that aren't sustained (Like Dispel Magic, for example).

Roar of Caledor: Just for laughs, let's take a pretty average SP result and see what kind of dragon we get. Let's assume our caster has 40 WP (less than a caster who has reached this spell probably will) and rolls a 60 (above average, but not FAR above average.) This gives us 100 SP, and gives our dragon:

Ws Bs S T Ag Wp W
60 40 60 60 30 70 40

WP 70 and MR 30 means this dragon is immune to any spell that doesn't have a triple digit SP score. T60 and Armor 4 means physical attacks have to deal 17 damage (counting Str and other bonuses) to actually hurt it. With these defenses and 40 Wounds, I think it's highly unlikely that this dragon is ever going to die.

So let's look at its offense. Counting Str, its claws deal 14-22 and its bite deals 18-26 damage, and it attacks three times a round. Let's pretend it's fighting a pretty decent warrior, one with WS40, S40, T40 and W40 (stats that are still a bit beyond our current characters). Its claw attacks are going to hit 70% of the time, and its bite is going to hit 80% of the time.

Assuming the warrior is wearing heavy armor, he's going to take an average 8 damage from a claw and 12 damage from a bite, which gives us a total of 15.5 Wounds per round. It terrifies me too much to even calculate how hard this dragon would rape a target that isn't a serious melee fighter.

Final thoughts: Keep the scaling as is. The base stats of the dragon should probably be half what they are now - considering he sticks around for the entire encounter, it's like summoning the equivalent of another player character. (One who is really badass in melee.)

PS: Does Firebreath attack the dragon's current zone, or does it target a zone somewhere else? If the latter, it needs a range.


Last edited by DemonicFerret on Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to wound rolls are important)

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:24 am

-Tzeentch Magic -

Orange Blade - If you want it to ignore DR I'll grant it but it doesn't need to ignore armor as well. It could be a tad OP as it is. That would make it more interesting without terribly increasing its power.

Eye of Change - The things I tossed up on the chart were mainly placeholders. I realize you dislike having a 10% chance of nothing happening but I think seeing as it one slot on the table that it's acceptable. All the effects were supposed to last the encounter. As for making foes suffer miscasts. I don't want non-casters suffering miscasts. I realize he is the changer of ways but it seems a bit wrong. I am going to buff a few of the effects though and try to make them more interesting.

Casting roll. Sorry I definitely meant spellpower roll there. You still need to pass the casting roll - (*Treat as level 6 for casting purposes) it is just the spellpower roll that cannot fail. I think I am going to tweak it a bit. Instant death could be viewed as a little harsh for those who are too scared to actually embrace the power of chaos. I'm gonna up it 20% and have you roll twice and choose the worse roll instead if that happens.



- High Magic -
Dispel Magic - Agreed. Will fix.
Curse of Blade Attraction- Supposed to be one round. I'll edit zee post.

Roar of Caledor-
As for stats on the dragon I agree they are probably too high. They should scale higher and have lower starting values. Your math is alarming but a little misleading. Most importantly you left out the wound roll.

As for the WP and MR though you are 100% it is way too high. I meant for the WP to be high before I remember MR existed and forgot to change it. It will be changed to a more reasonable level.

Firebreath- Supposed to be medium ranged attack. Will edit.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:32 pm

Because I was inspired I thought I'd work some on the Lore of Shadows. I'm sure some balancing is in order but you can feel free to check it out.

Lore of Shadow -
The lore of shadows is not meant to be quite as offensive a powerhouse lore as say Lore of Fire of Tzeentch. It is meant to play more of a subtle and support role although it does feature some strong offensive abilities as well.

- New Mechanic - Shadowed - The Lore of Shadows has many abilities that deal with shadowed zones. A Shadow Wizard can change a zone from a regular zone into shadowed zone. This has no inherent effect but is a key part of many abilities in the Shadow Tree.


    Shadowed - 1 Rank
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: The zone you enter a fight in counts as shadowed.

    Cloak of Shadows- 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: When in a shadowed zone you gain +5/10% dodge chance.

    Summon Shadows - 1 Rank
    Requirements: None
    Type: Powerful Ability
    Effect: The zone of your choice becomes shadowed.

    Shadow Walk - 1 Rank
    Requirements: Summon Shadows
    Type: Powerful Free Ability
    Effect: You can move to any zone that is currently shadowed.

    Blinding Shadows - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: Opponents in shadowed zones suffer -5/10 to hit.

    Fade into Nothing - 2 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Passive
    Effect: The first time an encounter there is a 20/40% chance any attack that would kill you instead fails. You are moved to the closest shadowed zone. If no shadowed zone exists, or the only shadowed zone is your current zone, the attack resolves as normal and you are slain.


    Shroud of Shadows - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Short Ranged Spell
    Level: Spell Level 1
    Effect: Yourself or an ally is shrouded in shadows. All opponents suffer a penalty on rolls made against you of -10 + 1 for every 25/20/15 points on your spellpower roll. In addition you may expel the Shroud as a free action turning the zone the target is in shadowed and granting the target a bonus to all rolls on their next turn equal to the penalty inflicted on their opponents.

    Shadow Bolt - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: None
    Type: Medium Ranged Spell
    Level: Spell Level 2
    Effect: Deals 3-5/7/9 damage. Plus an additional 1 for every 25/20/15 points you beat your spellpower roll by. If this spell damages a foe in a shadowed zone they suffer an additional 0/5/10 to all rolls next turn.

    Veil of Deception - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: One Shadow Spell
    Type: Medium Ranged Sustained Spell
    Level: Spell Level 3
    Effect: While this spell is active on the target they suffer a 15/20/25% + 5% for every 20/15/10 points you beat the spellpower roll for this spells effect to be activated. If activated the enemy targets a targetable allied unit instead of the enemy. If there is no allied unit the action is simply wasted. If the target is in a shadowed area when this effect takes place they gain +10/15/20 to all rolls when attacking an ally.

    Shadow Slayer - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: 1 Shadow Spell
    Type: Medium Ranged Spell
    Level: Spell Level 4
    Effect: The target attacks itself. This attack deals damage based off the targets weapon damage and critical strike chance. Bonus damage is determined by the targets S value. This attack deals an additional 1 weapon damage for every 20/15/10 points you win the spellpower roll by and an increased critical strike chance of 25% + 1% per 5/3/1 you win the spellpower roll by. If this attack is cast on a target in a shadowed area this damage ignores armor and magic resistance.

    Pit of Shades - 3 Ranks
    Requirements: 2 Shadow Spells
    Type: Medium Ranged AoE
    Level: Spell Level 5
    Effect: Targets all foes in the targeted zone dealing 4-10/13/15 (+1 for every 30/25/20 points you rolled on your spellpower check damage) to all enemies in the targeted zone. Any targets who take damage from this spell and are in a shadowed area is immobilized for the next 0/1/2 rounds.

    (Immobilized is a new keyword) - Cannot move or attack targets with melee attacks or abilities not currently engaging you.

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  deadlychair on Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:58 am

An enjoyable new tree. The only spells that really concern me are Shadow Slayer and Pit of Shades. Pit of Shades because it might be a bit too powerful with such high damage and immobilization, though I'd have to see it in action before I could really tell for sure. As for Shadow Slayer, does the target have to make a to hit roll against itself? How about a wound roll? This spell could really wreck a melee DPS character, especially since you can just keep casting it.

As for suggestions, do you think the tree needs more ways to get areas shadowed? I'm concerned about the mechanic's strength, because most other characters have to spend a single turn to get something to happen, while a shadow mage has to spend (aside from a few choice circumstances) two turns in order to affect the battlefield. This weakness could be mitigated by either adding more abilities that create shadowed zones, or some passives or ongoing (forget the exact name for these spells) spells that give buffs and debuffs to targets in shadowed zones.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:53 am

The idea behind Shadow Slayer was that it would wreck Melee DPS characters and be less effective against the traditional tank or mage. No hit or wound roll is necessary since you still need to succeed in both your Casting and Spellpower roll. I wanted to have a spell and mechanic that did better against strong and powerful targets. As for the damage level it should be on par with a Melee DPS character and it is a level 4 spell. I think in terms of power level it should be alright but we can certainly tweak the numbers a bit. I was trying to translate the deception/ turn the enemies strength on themselves feel from the lore.

As for the shadowed mechanic, the tree isn't complete and ideally there would be another ability or two that could generate shadowed zones. Suggestions for abilities are welcome.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  deadlychair on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:17 am

Well then it all makes sense.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:04 am

In the interest of keeping information organized, I'm going to compile the stuff we've decided on in this thread into the Magic Lores thread in News & Rules. While copy-pasting Tzeentch, I was struck by an idea for one more melee synergy ability:

Changer's Rush - 1 Rank
Requirements: Red Blade 2
Type: Passive
Effect: You may use your Red Blade skill on a charge attack.

Seem okay?

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:52 am

I immediately regret my plan to post in News and Rules, because the instant I started looking at those lores, I found all sorts of things I want to nitpick before finalizing them.

Longbolt: If we're going to have all requirements need full ranks (and we should) this should require Fireball 3, not Fireball 1.

Explosion: Requirement should read "One other spell". No need to specify which other spells you can choose from.

Cage of Fire: Is this supposed to have a duration, or just last until you stop sustaining it? (or until the target breaks the cage)

Overload: Does this cause a "real" miscast? Does it trigger Heart of Fire? Would it trigger Tzeentch skills that affect miscasts?

Fire is at 28 points currently. It needs a level 5 spell and an epic, which would bring it up to 32 or so, which is tolerable.

Tzeentch's Firestorm: Do we like this ability? I think it's fine, if a little uninteresting. It just needs to specify whether or not it causes FF, and if so how much.

A revised Eye of Change, based on our previous discussions:
Eye of Change - 1 Rank
Requirements: 3 other spells, Gaze of Tzeentch
Type: Epic Level 6 Spell
Effect: The great eye of Tzeentch watches over the battlefield warping and twisting everything in its path. At the beginning of each player's turn, roll on the table below. The caster rolls twice on this table taking the higher result, while enemies roll twice and take the lower result. Allies roll once. These effects last until the end of encounter. The spell remains active 1 round for every 30 points you scored on your spellpower roll. If you rolled less than 20 on your spellpower check, Tzeench does not favor you, and you must roll twice and select the lower result rather than the higher. Each round this spell remains active, the miscast and IF chance of all casters increases by 10%.

1 - Gift of Chaos - The character is melting into a chaos spawn. Each time this effect is rolled it has increasing effects. The first time this is rolled they suffer -10 to all attributes, and suffer -1 to all further rolls on this table. The second time, they lose any armor and DR they possess, and lose access to any Powerful abilities they have remaining. The third time, the target is reduced to a writhing pile of flesh that scampers off into the wilderness.
2 - Deadly Mutation - The target loses 20% of its maximum W. If the target is slain by this ability it becomes a pink horror under control of the caster. Ward saves can prevent this damage.
3 - Horrors of the Warp - The target loses their action.
4 - Daemons From Within - The target suffers 1 damage (ignoring armor and DR) for every 20 points you rolled on your spellpower check as daemon try to claw their way out of the target's body. If this effect slays the target they become a blue horror under your control.
5 - Harmful Mutation - The target suffers -10 to a random stat (excluding W).
6 - No effect - The target suffers no ill effects this turn.
7 - Helpful Mutation - target gains +10 to a random stat (excluding W).
8 - Regeneration - The target heals 10% of their maximum W.
9 - Surge of Power - The target gain +20 on hit, wound, casting, and spellpower rolls this turn.
10 - Daemonic Ascension - The character is becoming a daemon prince. Each time this effect is rolled it has increasing effects. The first time this is rolled they gain a 10% ward save. The second time this rolled they gain +10 to all attributes. The third time the target is granted daemonic raven wings which allow them to shift 1 zone for free at the beginning of their turn and regenerate 10% of their maximum health each turn.

Tzeentch would be at 33 if we include Orange Blade, the epic, and the passive I just posted.

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:04 am

@ Lore of fire.

Cage of flames- The idea was to keep it around as long as the spell was sustained or the target shifts zones.

Explosion/Longbolt- Agreed, failed to catch those after the ole- copy paste.

Overload - No it is not a "real miscast", I will clarify that with the wording, something like "Roll twice on the miscast table". As it is not a "real" miscast it would not trigger Heart of Fire

I'll post on the rest when i get home.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:14 am

The changes to Eye of Change seem fine. Although I might suggest a change of Surge of Power to reroll your next failed roll.

As for Charger's Rush, I don't really care for it. I think its a one-point extension to an ability that is already an extension of an ability and that doesn't really need it. I vote no on it.


As for the good old Friendly Fire question I am torn a bit. If we decide to use friendly fire it would apply to all spells. I am currently a bit torn.

Pros-
A) Would add realism.
B) Potentially add a new level of strategy.
C) Could create much hilarity.

Cons- Many people are douchebags who would turn on their allies for several reasons.
A) Encourages dick playing which could lead to less fun for other players.
B) To kill off other players for a better chance at gaining loot.
C) Non-magic characters would have no option or method to defend themselves.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  DemonicFerret on Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:21 am

But without FF, douchebags will be forced to use more difficult methods to murder their teammates. Like miscasts. But who would do that?

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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  FlyingPinkPony on Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:27 am

Someone who wants a Pony sized hoof shoved up their pooper.

- But in all seriousness - How do we feel about FF? Miscasts aside since they are too uncontrollable to be effective d-bag moves.
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Re: Magic - Mommy why does it burn?

Post  deadlychair on Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:57 am

I like FF fluffwise, but D-bag moves could be a problem. Perhaps limit FF damage considerably (50%?)? We could always moderate people who are being obvious douchebags (specifically trying to kill one player every time).
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